Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

a factor not included here is the quality of the opponents and the fact that most of the lighter weight fights were earlier in his career, In Ali's case Cooper who weighed 185 dropped him badly although Ali later stopped him on a cut, it was 188lb Doug Jones who gave Ali the fight of his life and 191 lb Sonny Banks that dropped him, 205 5"10 Oscar Bonavena gave Ali quite a fight and it was 197lb 6-0-1 Leon Spinks who beat Ali in his 7th win and lets not forget it was the 205lb 5"11 Joe Frazier that beat him dominantly in the FOTC

Ali stopped Foreman,Lyle, and Liston and they all weighed over 215, yet the 196lb Ruddi Lubbers went the full 12 rounds

Shavers lost his 1st fight to Stan Johnson who he outweighed by 20 lbs, then lost to the chubby but short 5"10 Ron Stander by KO in 5, he was KO'd in 1 by Jerry Quarry who he outweighed and lost to Bob Stallings who he outweighed, Shavers also lost to men who outweighed him and many of them later in his career but lets not forget Shavers did KO the 222lb Henry Clark and the 231lb 6'5 Roy Williams, the 245lb Joe Bugner,and the 225lb Ken Norton in1rd, funny but Shavers could not KO the 190lb ex light heavyweight and middleweight Vicente Rondon, who was Ko'd by 160 lb Jose Gonzales,162lb Bennie Briscoe and 175lb Bob Foster

 

I have. at gleasons gym in Brooklyn. it doesn't make my opinion more or less valid than anyone elses

 

Also at Gleasons on one occassion.

 

With cruiserwight division and weigh lifting to gain weight, we don't have matches where a guy 188 pounds takes on bigger guys. If that was case 20 years ago and further back, we would not have had Shaversvs Stallings, Coooper vs Ali, Marshall vs Liston, Conn vs Louis, Dempsey vs Willard, etc. They would have fought, but they would have all come in way heavier due to weight lifting, and in some cases maybe steroids. We can see that when guys in 180 pound range did fight guys way heavier, fights were competitive.

Look at all the 220 pound guys Moore beat. Few monnths ago we had a video up on here of Moore ko'ing guy who was 6'3" and over 210 pounds, and had good record, first round ko I believe,.

 

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same here brother... Hector Roca spend 6 hours telling me I was fat

 

Wow so in this thread I've seen the following bull**** spewed:

Pulev has a superior jab to wlad
Rocky has superior power to wlad
Wlad has no heart

how can anyone watch boxing and come up with those 3 conclusions.

 

I think the guy you're mentioning was Rogerio Lobo...
Moorer was 16 pounds heavier than that 210 pounds guy.

Also the reason he was succesful was because he was a very skilled guy.

And you got bums in every weightgroup, and he never faced the very best.
Besides Holyfield.

 

Nearly 35 pages and it isn't even a thread on Dempsey, something is amiss!

 

Archie Moore, not Michael Moorer.

 

That is 100% wrong and completly made up by you. Being bigger does not make a fighter more durable to punishment, especially when it is Wlad who has an extremly weak chin. Big men are known to fall harder than any other build of fighter.

Next. Disputing Rocks power is another opinion based off your own ignorance. Its a known fact.
One puch knock out power , as proven by 40 odd one punch knockouts and awarded multiple knock out accolades.

His knock out against Wallcot is known as the hardest puch ever known in the history of the sport.

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Ali aslo claimed he hit harder than Fraizer.

You will have to go up against, boxing history, practically every professional boxing writer ever, Ring mag, and every other credibile boxing source in the world to dispute that.

So thats where we are now, you , an armchair observer , attempting to argue against boxing history and the very words of Muhammad Ali himself.

On that note , you're opinions from here on will never carry any weight and every post you entered into this thread has been rendered completly worthless.

 

I'm a huge Marciano fan, he's my favourite fighter, but Seamus has made some credible points. Wlad is indeed an extremely hard puncher and very strong individual. MagnaNasakki has sparred with Wlad and several other big HW punchers of note and says Wlad is far and away the hardest puncher and I take his word for it. Although to dispute Rock's power is also silly he could seriously bang, Wlad has never produced single punch KO's over ranked opponents like Marciano has.

 

This is a snippet from a great articile from scene called " A Good Read On Rocky Marciano's Power"


Where Did the Power Come From?

How does a 187 pound man hit harder than a 200+ pound man when both are trained fighters? There's an axiom in boxing that says "You can’t teach power. Either a fighter is born with it or not." Hundreds and hundreds of fighters have proven it to be true. One heavyweight is a formidable knockout artist while another rarely hurts an opponent and must win by points, even though they might be identical in height, weight, and the size of their muscles.

Part of it lies in how a fighter sets himself when he delivers his blow. A pure boxer stylist will be on his toes, mobile, with little contact with the floor when he hits. The force of his impact comes from his arms and shoulders only. But a slugger, a Jim Jefferies, Joe Louis, Dempsey, Frazier, Foreman, Tyson, or Marciano, will plant his feet flat as he punches, using the floor for leverage to get more of his body weight behind the punch.

Another part is "commitment to the punch". The fighter who is worried about a counter blow is going to hold something back. He wants to be able to block the counter punch if it comes. But, the fighter who has no fear of retaliation, who accepts that he might get hit in return and couldn’t care less, will put everything into the punch. Marciano knew before he stepped into the ring that he would get hit a lot during the course of the fight. He accepted it beforehand and didn’t let it interfere with his intention to bang away at his opponent. When Rocky let go he was totally committed to the punch, putting every ounce of energy and body weight into every punch.

Marciano’s incredible power began in his feet as they pushed off the mat. The energy was fed by his thick, muscular legs, the swivel of his hips, and the twist he’d put into his upper body as he snapped forward his arm and fist.

Where the power came from might be best illustrated in a letter I received from a doctor who works with internal medical problems and trauma. He told me this: "Now what determines the power of a punch? I mean the formula… The effect of a punch is calculated by the energy applied at the sight of the hit. So the kinetic energy of Marciano's punch, that is the degree of damage the punch would generate, is equal to 1/2 mass x velocity x velocity (1/2mv2). Rocky's was equal to the mass of the arm plus the weight he shoved forward with body weight. Next, he hit in close. As your arm moves forward the time from beginning to end increases as you increase the distance of the thrown punch. Since velocity = feet per sec, that means the longer the range the less velocity. Now the energy generated is, remember, mass times vel x vel. Well if your punches are so much shorter, traveling only a few inches, your velocity is incredible! And the transmitted energy at impact is enormous! That calculation of energy is the destructive force (damage) to the body. Basically he broke his opponents up inside. Had George Foreman been a swarmer, he would have been a better fighter. He was a slugger. But as strong as he was he hit from too far away. Frazier was not as powerful as Marciano. He had a similar style, but didn't hit as hard (didn't use shifting weight, etc)."

 

Thats a fair point, but not really a valid one as he has not sparred with both men to make a proper comparison.

 

oh well, that's pretty stupid of me.

 

^^^^^

No problem, but you owe me one now.