Jung Koo Chang-Myung Yuh Woo.

I was talking about the fights between Lopez and Alvarez, not their career standings.

I just fail to see why Lopez should be favoured over Yuh given his performances at 108. To me it's not obvious that Lopez wins....

I don't have an issue with anyone rating Lopez and Chang higher, though personally, I think Yuh and Lopez are about equals and Chang is not far ahead.

Regarding reasons for why a h2h fight between Yuh and Lopez shouldn't automatically be regarded as a given for Lopez: Well he's a better fighter than Alvarez for a start, who pretty much split even rounds with Lopez over 2 fights. He's a better fighter period than anyone Lopez ever fought actually.

Secondly he is the bigger guy and as such would be able to absorb one of Lopez's best assets, his punching power, better than the average 105 pounder could.

Thirdly combined with his size advantage he's got a fantastic work rate and can apply pressure for all 15 rounds against a smaller man. That's a heavy burden to bare to have constant pressure applied by a bigger guy over 15 rounds.

Lopez's performances at 108 don't instil me with the confidence to say he can match Yuh there.

 

:|

That was in another thread, in this I clearly said that in the time frame mentioned Chang would have to spoil to win and that Yuh should be favoured.

 

Well I don't think its a given for Lopez, at all but Yuh was not a devastating one punch guy (indeed I don't think he hit any harder than Alvarez) and so he's going to have to outland Lopez which is going to be tough speaking that the size difference is minuscule (and Lopez was actually a little taller) and Lopez was certainly better on the outside. Inside of course belongs to Yuh, but Lopez will grab and minimize the work done (which is what have him the edge against Alvarez who was bigger than Yuh).

Our to put it another way: what makes you think a guy that didn't distinguish himself from Hiroki Ioka could best Ricardo Lopez?

 

I think workrate rather than power will make it difficult for Lopez. Yuh has a lot more stamina than Alvarez imo. He will push hard the whole fight assuming he can take Lopez's shots of course.

That's the thing: imo he did. I had winning the first fight by 3 points and the second fight by 8 points.

 

Yuh never really showed me that he was especially good at closing the distance. He didn't really need it against the quality of opposition he was routinely facing, guys that were willing to engage/unable to really use the ring and their feet to their advantage. He didn't have much speed of foot. Always operated best at close-ish range in wars, relatively stationary. I figure Lopez would just dictate from range the majority of the bout and not allow Yuh the opportunities most of his opponents did.

I haven't seen the fight with Joey Olivo yet, but I'd assume that was what made it a particularly difficult night for Yuh.

 

Just curious; how'd you score the Lopez-Alvarez fights?

 

A valid criticism of Yuh, but I don't think Lopez is the kind of fighter to expose that ungainly lack of good footwork on Yuh's part.

Not for anything resembling the majority of a 15 rounder anyway...

 

Ricardo Lopez vs. Rosendo Alvarez I: 67-66 Alvarez
Lopez: 3,4 and 6.
Alvarez: 1,2 ( 10 - 8 ) and 5.
Round 7 even.


Ricardo Lopez vs. Rosendo Alvarez II: 115-115 Draw
Lopez: 1,2,5,7 and 9.
Alvarez: 3,4,8,10 and 12.
Rounds 6 and 11 even.

The second bout's scoring was admittedly a bit kind to Alvarez, as I was pulling for him after I think he got the short end of the stick in their first bout.

 

I absolutely agree with the first but completely disagree with the second. I have it 8-4, 7-5 for Lopez.

 

Those fights showed how a top-notch right hand could get to Lopez though.

One of many reasons Chang would have caused the Mexican a massive about of hassle.

BTW all jokes aside I consider Yuh and Lopez a tough one to pick. I'll take Lopez's range dictating to be the difference, just. Yuh was better than anyone Lopez fought that much I'm sure of.

 

The inverse also applies for Yuh of course. Sometimes when guys without deep resumes are matched in hypotheticals we aren't even taking educated guesses; we're engaging in philosophical debates. And who doesn't love that.

 

Ah, I apparently forgot to respond to this thread when I visited this forum the last time. It may be for the best, since we now have first person testimony that definitely should settle the question on who wins in terms of Chang v. Yuh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akpTYaTNWjw

Moreover, the program also elaborates in detail why the proposed match never occurred.

To make a long story short for those who cannot speak Korean:

There was a half-hour program on the parallel careers of Chang and Yuh on Korean TV recently. In it, Yuh explicitly said that he would've lost in a hypothetical match with Chang, and that the stylistic mismatch would've been such that it was difficult for him to compete. Yuh was then asked if he is being "modest," and Yuh answered in the negative (which squares with his own private comments that I am acquainted with on the subject). I wish Yuh would have elaborated on why there would have been a stylistic mismatch, but I think the answer is hinted in Chang's analysis of the two fighters' respective styles: In Chang's words, Chang was an adaptable fighter who adjusted his style according to his opponent, whereas Yuh was a conventional, one-style fighter (or "in-fighter" in Yuh's words).

On the issue of why the fight never took place: Three were offered by third party observers: Money, different broadcasting stations, and the reluctance to risk belts v. a formidable opponent in an unnecessary manner. The program then supplies a fourth reason in a discreet manner, which I feel is the real reason: In a flashback to an interview with Chang in his prime, Chang says that Yuh is yet a mere neophyte, and he'd be willing to deign to give Yuh a fight if Yuh collects a few more title defenses himself. In short, the timing was a little off; their primes did not quite intersect--as I have emphasized elsewhere on this forum in the past.

Who do I think would have won, and why? I agree with the majority on this forum--as well as Yuh himself--in opining that I do not see any scenario where Yuh beats a prime Chang. Chang is too fast and too unconventional for a limited swarmer like Yuh to handle. Yuh's sole possible advantage is in an in-close slug-fest, but I don't even see that as a definite check mark on Yuh's ledger either. Yuh was more active with his hands inside, but Chang threw more precise, harder punches; Yuh had a better chin (the best in division history, according to some--but I am not sure, given that he was never tested by a serious puncher) but prime Chang also had a good chin, and his defense was far superior. And once Chang learns he can't bully Yuh inside, he will simply box Yuh, and Yuh won't have an answer there. Of course, this is assuming an in-shape, peak Chang. If Chang doesn't take Yuh seriously and has to shed 20 pounds in a few days before the fight (as he was sometimes wont to do), then I can see Chang unable to fight the whole 12 rounds and Yuh eking out a close decision.

Also, on Lopez v. Yuh: I tend to think Lopez takes this one. I saw someone make the Alvarez comparison and wonder whether Yuh cannot exceed Alvarez's performance. But the comparison is a bit flawed, I think: Mainly, Alvarez can crack some, but Yuh had cotton on his fists. That is, Alvarez troubled Lopez not merely because Alvarez had a chin and could take Lopez's punches (the same way Yuh would, presumptively), but Lopez had to deal with hard stuff coming back. Yuh simply didn't have enough snap on his punches to stop Lopez from landing precision shots repeatedly. Also, frankly I do not know if Yuh walks through Lopez's power shots as easily as some folks (including some here, it looks like) seem to think. Yes, Yuh was never down and never really in danger of going down. But who has he faced? Had he faced the likes of German Torres, perhaps he may have. Yuh's opposition is not something I am a fan of, and it's too thin for me to make any definitive conclusions regarding where his ceiling may have been at.

 

This was a good thread. And nice to see some action that's not about roy jones or heavyweights.

 

Confucius might just be my favourite poster ever.