Larry Holmes vs Joe Fraizer

I like Frazier by close decision like 9-6.

 

I always assumed Holmes but now that I actually think about it, was Larry any mote of a stylistic problem than fotc Ali was for Frazier?

Until someone can tell me why that comparison is folly I'm gonna go with Frazier ud.

 

I think he was. He never had problems with dealing with left hooks in his career, he was a harder puncher than Ali, his jab was better, and he was more versatile than Ali was. Holmes had a body attack, he had hard uppercuts, he had a good right hook, and he had a great chin and stamina on top of it all.

He was also very quick with his hands and could move for long period of time if he felt the need.

 

Did he have problems with small fighters? I believe the only two he fought was a no hoper in ocasio and Tyson, who brutally stopped him. Whether Larry was past his best or not, he clearly didn't match up well stylistically against Tyson. Again I'm not comparing Tyson and Frazier here, but they're style has certain similarities and these similarities appear to give someone that was ampure boxer or boxer-puncher fits.

In what ways was Larry more versatile than Ali? Not saying he wasn't, but I don't see how that versatility helps him take down Frazier, Holmes was not a brawler and against a prime Frazier he isn't even winning a round if he tries to brawl his way through the fight.

I also highlighted in my earlier post that although Larry could go to the body, he's gonna find it very hard to find a much smaller man's body in Frazier than say Gerry Cooney. Going to the body again leaves him open to the left hook and with Frazier constantly bobbing and weaving and while Holmes never showed a lot of vulnerability to the left hook throughout his career, who did he fight that had a very good one? Using his feet to avoid punches rather than his head will also hurt Holme's chances.

Everyone that's said Holmes in this thread has just said,p 'he'll out box Frazier to a UD' Holme's only way to outbox someone was to keep them on the end of the jab and fire the straight right over the top. If anyone honestly thinks that Larry could do that for more than 8 rounds against Joe Frazier clearly doesn't know how good Smokin Joe was.

 

Renaldo Snipes and Leon Spinks fought by moving and moving their head a ton. Frazier at 5'11 was probably about 5'8 when in his stance and bobbing and weaving. I'd imagine Spinks and Snipes weren't much taller when fighting in their stances against Holmes. It didn't stop Holmes from teeing off on them as they tried to get in closer. Holmes walked Ocasio down as he was spearing him with jabs, hooks, straight rights, and uppercuts. Holmes's accuracy is often left out when considering match ups.

I think Holmes was more versatile than Ali in the aspect that he could fight very well doing litterally any style of fight. He could walk guys down, fight moving backwards, fight going side to side, fight off of the ropes, fight while the other guy was on the ropes, attack the head, attack the body, and had a very good punch variety.

Obviously against Frazier Holmes would be looking to move around and outbox him, which he would likely do for the first half of the fight. In the second half of the fight is where the real war would begin. Against Ali, Frazier was able to walk through his punches and was able to take 3 or 4 shots to land one. Against Holmes, he would not be able to do it, which would lessen Frazier's famous attack.

When Holmes teed of on people not named Tex Cobb or Oliver McCall the way Ali did against Frazier, people got hurt and usually dropped. Frazier would be forced to focus on defense more than he did against Ali, which is why I think Holmes wins a close, clear decision against Joe.

Joe wouldn't be able to launch a full on guns blazing, take a few to land one type fight he was able to do so well against Ali. That little bit of difference will swing the fight in Larry's favor, in my opinion.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree. Ali had almost supernatural qualities to his toughness and character. I don't think this romanticization is idol-worship either. As Norton observed when watching Foreman-Ali, "I thought Ali was going to begin to break down taking all those body-shots." Again, not a knock on Holmes. Ali's durability edge helps him even more in comparison as well. Especially his ability to endure body-shots. An often overlooked quality.