Mayweather, Jones, and Whitaker were too dominant at their best to have rivals shoul

:deal

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Brilliant mate! Thanks a lot! I haven't seen this either. It's much appreciated.

I've just dug an old copy out from Nov 1999, with him on the front cover. That's the earliest Ring mag I have. :good

 

Rex Tickard,


Hi mate, great username.

That's right, I'm fully aware of the facts. Roy got the WBC belt back and the WBA belt from Lou De Valle. He then unified against Reggie Johnson in 1999. DM had rights to the belts, but when Roy and his team tried to make the fight in 2001, Roy was the unified champ. DM had a chance to reclaim the belts but take it.

Why should Roy have had to go to Germany in 2001?

Complete nonsense. (See the links below.)

I've never heard him ask for $25M, but the $12M you are referring to is here. In my opinion, it was clearly said in a frustrated tone, because nothing was happening.


http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=man%20to%20man%3A%20jones%20vs.%20michalczewski%20francis%20walker&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cyberboxingzone.com%2Fboxing%2Ffw82099.htm&ei=qqvhUP75Bsjs0gXbnoH4Bw&usg=AFQjCNF5Ww4qfaZ2uWEsHv4IClsTCZO2mw

I respect your opinion, but read these links, and then get back to me.




HBO wanted to stage a double header to promote the fight, but DM's promoter/advisor Peter Kohl wasn't interested.



Promoter Kohl: "Michalczewski is not Undercard


Roy Jones wants to "Tiger" in the context of program

last updated: 12.07.2000 - 17:55 New York (sid) The latest idea from the camp of Profibox superstar Roy Jones Jr. would bring light heavyweight champion Dariusz Michalczewski crazy. The pay-TV giant HBO wants the 18th Title defense against WBO titlist David Telesco get into the Framework Programme of the World Cup of triple champion Jones against Eric Harding in New Orleans. This is the sale of the Jones fights in the HBO Pay-Per-View offshoot TVKO be boosted.

"I find this idea perfectly. She is bold, but not outside the Realtität", HBO's executive director Kerry Davis said in the USA Today newspaper. For the fight against the unattractive Harding to the TV fans shell out the equivalent of 70 marks proud. Participation by Michalczewski would significantly enhance the event.
"It's a great idea, and Roy is interested in," said Jones-lawyer Stan Levin and presented Michalczewski then even a title unification with Jones promised, "If he makes the first move, would Roy in turn seriously considering a fight in Germany do. "

Michalczewski wants to crown has long been a fight against Roy Jones, to the best light heavyweight in the world. The Hamburg promoter Klaus-Peter Kohl had the WBC WBA IBF champion made an offer over ten million dollars, Jones calls but twice. Michalczewski, whose fight against Telesco also on 9 September was held last week scolded again that Jones would chicken out before him.
Kohl is HBO's offer, however, still skeptical. "Dariusz is no Undercard Fighter Like the American television network Roy Jones would like to see as the main fighters, the Germans also want Dariusz as an attraction also are financial issues not clarified why should Dariusz.. always suffer a disadvantage? "



Also, in 2001, Roy's advisor Brad Jacobs, met with HBO representatives to discuss the fight, but they couldn't get Kohl to negotiate.




In the works: German promoter Peter Kohl is coming to New York next week to meet with representatives for Roy Jones Jr., including executives with HBO, to discuss a meeting between Jones and Dariusz Michalczewski. It is the most positive sign yet that a deal can be worked out.

Brad Jacobs, the manager for Jones, said yesterday that there had been little progress in his efforts to get Kohl to even come up with a counter-offer to two proposals he has sent him. Jacobs said there hadn't even been any telephone conversations between himself and Kohl. Kohl rejected his offers through the mail.
In the works: German promoter Peter Kohl is coming to New York next week to meet with representatives for Roy Jones Jr., including executives with HBO, to discuss a meeting between Jones and Dariusz Michalczewski. It is the most positive sign yet that a deal can be worked out.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2001...lyn-bridge-hbo




July 25, 2001 – By Paul Upham: WBC, WBA, IBF and IBO light-heavyweight champion Roy Jones Jr’s adviser and representative Brad Jacobs has denied claims by WBO title-holder Dariusz Michalczewski’s promoter and Universum head Klaus Peter Kohl that a Jones Jr- Michalczewski bout is close to being made. “Unless he’s got some magical offer that he’s putting on the table to us, I really don’t know what he is talking about,” said Jacobs.

“I haven’t talked to him in over two months. Kerry Davis from HBO hasn’t talked to him in nearly a month, so I don’t know where he can come off and say anything like that since we haven’t had any conversations.”

http://www.secondsout.com/columns/pa...lczewski-claim

 

Part 2.


With Jones contracted to HBO for five more fights and his star fading, the network realizes that Michalczewski is the one opponent who can help rejuvenate interest in him. After the Harmon bout, HBO's Kery Davis said he would go all out to put the bout together.

"We've tried to solicit a number from them to give us a starting point in negotiations, but I can't even get Kohl on the phone," Davis said. "We can't even get him to give us an absurd number to start the ball rolling. But we're trying."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxin...2-28-jones.htm




Jones is fighting Gonzalez on PPV in part because his HBO deal calls for only two fights a year. HBO is saving the second one for a possible Michalczewski bout. "This allows me to keep that fight on course for later this year," HBO's Kery Davis said. "If he fights a summer bout on HBO, it doesn't leave money for a Michalczewski fight, and I want that fight on HBO."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxin...4-02-jones.htm




"He needs a big fight," said Kery Davis, HBO senior VP of programming. "There's nothing else to say. That's the bottom line."

Lining that up will be difficult because two fighters fans want to see him meet - Bernard Hopkins and Felix Trinidad - have signed on for a middleweight unification tournament. And Dariusz Michalczewski, a Polish light heavyweight who boxes primarily in Germany, is refusing the come to the U.S. to fight Jones. And Jones has said that he isn't going to Germany to meet Michalczewski. Jones doesn't even believe a KO against Michalczewski is enough in Germany.(Graciano I fight comes to mind)

Davis said Michalczewski and his promoter, Peter Kohl, have made negotiating difficult. But HBO is moving in that direction.

"It's Michalczewski or bust," Davis said. "We've been trying to make this fight for weeks."

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2001...wski-big-fight




There is also this interesting article where Murad Muhammad (Roy's old advisor/promoter) talks about what DM wanted, and what he was getting paid at the time.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&ved=0CG0QFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.secondsout.com%2Fusa-boxing-news%2Fusa-boxing-news%2Fmurad-muhammad-jones-v-ruiz-is-99-done&ei=6-_JUIrRKamA0AW08oGYBw&usg=AFQjCNHtu1lAhg-zmZufpaPl5RzXOY4JTg




According to Roy, this is what he was actually offered.

Go to 6.05 and watch for until 8.05.

http://youtu.be/JWgQYK16wNQ




It all seems pretty clear to me.


DM and Kohl turned down the chance to showcase DM to the American public, in a proposed double header that would have promoted the fight and made it huge.

Kohl tried to imply that it was degrading for DM to appear on an undercard to Roy, even though it would have led to a shot at a huge unification fight for big money.

He was too proud to go on the undercard, yet he was happy to fight Harmon and Hall twice after the negotiations had broken down?

Either Kohl is the worst businessman who's ever been in business, or DM simply didn't want the fight.

That's the bottom line.



They refused the opportunity to fight Roy, and instead fought Richard Hall twice for around a third of the amount that they would have got to face Roy.


That to me speaks volumes.



Nice debating with you, get back to me when you have the time.



Regards, Loudon.

 

Jones disgraced himself with his conduct during the Rochiagiani - wbc affair. He should never have been allowed to get the belt back under those conditions. He complains about Don King then acts exactly like him

 

Hands of Iron,

Hi mate, I've only just noticed your visitor message that you sent me a while ago.

I haven't actually seen a lot of Sweet Pea, and I'm just currently looking in depth at his career. I've really enjoyed reading your great posts on this thread, and when I have time, I'm going to continue to look at his career, aswell as Mike McCallum's.

Many thanks!


Loudon.

 

Hi mate, hope you've had a great Xmas.

Can you give me some info please? Can you tell me exactly what happened, and also, what happened when Roch was going to fight Roy in 2000, but Roy ended up fighting Telesco? Imperial educated me on this a while ago, but I can't recall exactly what he said. Did Roch no show at the press conference, and have drink problems?

Thanks mate!

 

Thanks it was alright. I dont believe in santa anymore so its not the same

Jones vacated the wbc belt to avoid facing Nunn. Basically what happened was he made a low ball offer to Nunn who refused it so the fight went to purse bids and Jones lost it because he only bid around 1.5m for the fight.

Nunn would go on to fight Roch for the belt and drop a debatable decision

With Nunn out of the picture Jones decided he now wanted his belt back so he cut a deal with the wbc who stripped Roch of the belt and gave it back to Jones.

Roch would protest the decision so the wbc would order a contest to determine the true wbc champion. It was basically nonsense Jones had vacated the belt if he wanted a shot then he should of asked Roch for a voluntary defense instead of using his influence to get Roch stripped.

About a week before the fight Roch skipped a press conference. His reason for doing so was he did not want to break his training regime at that point.
Roch at that point could of afforded to be cheeky no one cancels a fight at so late a stage. Everything his already been set up and paid for

Jones cancelled the fight.

Murad MUhammad would claim that there was no demand for the fight. People would play up Roch's drinking but Roch insists he did not want to break his camp at that point. Roch would of already spent tens of thousands on his training camp and he was set to make something like 1.2 m for the fight

Roch would take his case back to the wbc who sided with Jones. Basically they would make more money with Jones than Roch. It was then that Roch then took the wbc to court. The wbc got sued for millions and Jones's wbc reign from 98-00 was declared null and void by the judge who ruled in Roch favour.

WBC lawyer: Roy Jones Jr. has to fight Rocchigiani

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/de...jones-jr.-has-to-fight-rocchigiani-1999-10-08

Federal Judge Strips Roy Jones, Jr. of World Boxing Council Title; Court Orders WBC to Pay $30M Damages and Declares Graziano Rocchigiani as Light Heavyweight Champion From 1998 - 2000.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Federal+Judge+Strips+Roy+Jones%2c+Jr.+of+World+Boxing+Council+Title%3b...-a099819501


ps: Have a happy new year. Im off to get drunk

 

Thanks a lot mate, I really appreciate that. I'm a lot clearer now on what happened.

Happy new year to you too, and I'll look forward to debating with you again next year.

Have a good one!

 

ok you make some valid points, and for that reason, in absolute terms floyd has had a great career. i respect him for what he does and i would rate hiim the best of his generation/decade.....

but now we are going into ATG comparisons, therefore, i have to analyze his career relatively speaking and that is why i have downgraded his resume a bit.

mosley had a great win over margarito and the fight was hyped up. but come one, if you see prime shane vs the shane that fought cotto, margarito, sergio mora, pac - it was clear he was slowing down. no compare this to fighting any version of tommy hearns or a old version of hagler at 160......or fighting julio caesar chavez at 30 years old........

people dont dismiss floyd bc of a what have you done for me lately, people dismiss floyd bc floyd claims he is the best boxer ever and even greater than ALI and sugar ray robinson, i think the atg think floyd is a probably a puzzy in all honestly they way he does his match making compared to what the old breed used to do....

back in the days, the best fought the best in their primes!!!!!

so floyds resume is downgraded in the atg conversation.....on a generational or decade status -he deserves to be ranked the best.

however, had he fought guys like oscar and shane prime 4 prime, i think he might have a zero!

 

Great post! :good

Happy new year mate!

 

Yeah, for sure. I don't even really remember what I've said in thread. 38 posts.

 

Funny thing about Floyd is that he did fight his top rivals during the first two divisions that he campaigned in during his pro career. Chico Corrales was considered to be a legitimate threat to beat Floyd when they met in 2001; and JLC was considered to be the class of the lightweight division when he met Floyd.

Then again, Corrales and Castillo are clearly at a lower level than Ramirez, McGirt and Chavez, so Pernell rates quite a bit higher as a result.

Still...if Mayweather fights his perceived top rival at 154lbs (Canelo or Trout), he'll have done so in three divisions; and that's a pretty good accomplishment all things considered.

 

How do you rate the win over Vasquez? He was a too far out of his depth at 154, and facing a much bigger and established champ. Really his last big hurrah from an accomplishment standpoint unless you had him beating Oscar. (Which even being that competitive looks well on him). We needn't pretend he didn't look seriously human and then some against the Riveras and Hurtados, though the latter is a good example of 'clutch' in boxing, especially for his lack of power.

 

It's arguably a more impressive performance than his schooling of JCC, for the reason that you mentioned; because Vasquez was in beast mode at that point and had proved he was capable of imposing his will on more technically proficient fighters. The fact that he could only manage a single fleeting moment of success (an odd looking flash kd) against someone who was a lot smaller and starting to fade is an indication of how good Sweet Pea really was.