Has Wlad done enough to establish lineage?

Wlad clearly ranks above Tyson and Holmes, many here have them at top 10 ATG but have Wlad at only top 100 ATG.

You have to love American and British ****s, they are as boring as they are stupid.

 

Clearly the former, though I feel TBR should have recognized him when they came into existence.

 

So far the creation of the TBR has only resulted in more controversy.

"Typical. Bloody typical."

 

I am not disputing your ability to read the TBR's rules. What I AM Disputing is the following scenario. Vitali retires -> TBR ranks Haye as #2 based off his loss to WK, 1 year layoff, and win over Chisora -> Wlad must face Haye to be considered the heavyweight champion. Am I not making sense?

According to TBR, Wlad must face the #2 heavyweight between now and when he retires (or loses) to be considered the heavyweight champion in his career (I disagree, but I understand their "purity crusade"). The big question is if Vitali retires, who deserves to be #2?

The whole point of this thread is "Has Wlad done enough to establish lineage?" Clearly this depends on your criteria. Some, such as TBR (which is why they were brought up) believe in #1 vs. #2 exclusively. Others, such as the Ring believe in #1 vs. #2 or #3. Different people believe that only by unifying the WBA, WBC, IBF, and WBO can one become champion. Those that hold on to the "lineal" title idea say you must defeat the previous champion. I have even read on this site that you must have defeated x number of ATG's or not have any unavenged losses.

I personally believe that all of these are much to rigid and "ideal" given the real world circumstances. It all comes back to this fantasy that people have over the "lineal" title. If only every champion were kind enough to lose the title in the ring, we wouldn't have this mess [sarcasm]. Initial champions were recognized by the press and the athletic commissions; Perhaps we need a vote, such as the AP poll for the NCAA College Football Champion.

 

Using TRB logic Povetkin should become #2 if Vitali retires based off accomplishment. Rating Haye #2 after Vitali retires is absurd since he's semi retired, rsue isn't as good as Povetkin's and he never held an actual Title. Valuev had the Interm belt and after Valuev and Haye (both co-promoted by King at the time) backed out of their Vova and Chagaev fights the WBA declared that they wouldn't sanction the Chagaev/Vova fight as being a WBA Title fight knowing that Chagaev would lose. After he lost the WBA Title which Chagaev held just vanished into thin air and they "promoted" Valuev's Interm belt to regular title via Don King WBA corruption magic which was the plan all along.

 

he became linear when defeating ibragimov

 

Boxing Monthly still have Vitali rated above Wladimir. Then again, they also had Lucy Booty above Ward even after the Super Six had finished.

"Now what's going on there..."

 

Like McG says, there's no disputing wlads championship claim with the trbr because he hasn't beaten 1/2 whilst 1/2. I'd personally say his fight iggy meets that criteria but there are those who disagree. Same with Holmes, once shavers had starched Norton I'd say the rematch was 1v2 but again I appreciate there are those that disagree.

The more I think about the more their championship policy grows on me. If it ever received the prestige required to make it truly significant that will be a good day for boxing.

 

Who should he be fighting? Povetkin? Seriously, he's fought everybody, whether people want to call them cans or not. In 2013, he is without question the best heavyweight boxer alive on this planet. He has beaten any human being that could possibly challenge him, other than Povetkin, who has been scared shitless of him.

In the NFL, if every team was crap and only one team was winning everything (impossible with the two divisions, but compare the other teams to Rahman, etc), and this team won the Super Bowl, they would be considered the Champions, defending next year, and if they won a few years, would be a dynasty. See The Oilers in hockey, Yankees in Baseball, etc. Wlad is the top heavyweight, has beaten the men that have beaten the men, and obviously has developed lineage that previously had died with the retiring Lewis.

 

And on the BoxRec-ratings Wlad has lost a lot of points, and now he is ranked behind Vitali, an ha dropped pretty far down the P4P list, why has that happened?

 

Further proof Wlad is not the damn linear champion. Vitali hasnt lost since 2003 give him his just due before he retires!