For sure. Ali is great. I just find it offputting to say so and so is this and that or this great when little research with to make the comparison is done in advance. I am also open about being critical of Ali, especially regarding the Norton bouts.
ive no quarrel with that. Everyone should be open to critcism. I do have a problem tho with every win he ever had bein classed as a fix/lucky/bought judges/shot opponent/dive like which has been gettin claimed on here There are few fighters on here who seem to be plucked outta the thin air for ones to vent their spleen over for no apparent reason other than a clear dislike, than Ali here. I mean, theres a few fighters i wouldnt have a great deal of time for but i choose just to not mention them unless the thread is actually about them. Not singling you or anyone else out, just an observation.
I rate him #1 ATG @ Lightweight....Although I believe anywhere from 1-3 is justifiable, and would not provoke an argument from me (As long as it is Gans, Duran and Benny that are discussed as the big 3)...His P4P ranking is probably proportianate to that so, anywhere from 5-15 is adequate if you are rating him 1-3... Personally I can't rate him higher than 7. 01 SRR 02 Greb 03 Armstrong 04 Langford 05 Charles 06 Fitzsimmons 07 Benny 08 Moore 09 Pep 10 Louis 11 Ali 12 Gans 13 Duran 14 Ross 15 Walker
P4P, Leonard kicks Ali's ass. Personally, I have him up there with Charles and Ribinson. I've never bothered to sit down and make a list, but if I did it would be those three at top, then Greb. Mine is based on technical skill and mental energy, my criterion.
I have trouble rating ATG HWs with ATGs, the hw division has always been narrow. You sure as hell don't see a Cleveland Williams who was crippled and had intestines removed getting a title shot in non hw divisions. It just seems unfair that lighter boxers have to be p4p much better and work much harder than a heavyweight to get the same rating.
Robinson's natural power, speed and chin were all probably just as, if not more instrumental to his success as any of his technical skills, however defined. I'd say Ray Leonard (random example) actually had better form, threw the straighter punches and had tighter defense. Right, you see Alvaro Rojas and Leoncio Ortiz. What's crazy to me is that Ali actually beat more top ten contenders (at the time he fought them) than Henry Armstrong did. Of course, you've got to account for quality as well but it isn't as if Ali was participating in a **** era. He's got the best resume amongst the heavyweights by a fair distance.
Ali is clearly p4p greater than Leonard. Leonard=135, Ali=210. That's well over 50% more pounds so Leonard would have to be as good as Ali and a half to be equal.
BUT....Since Little Red is already backwards, doesn't that imply that he just might have this one right??? :roll:
Based on Resume.. I might give it ever so slightly to Benny over Duran. Problem is, he also lost more than a prime Lightweight Duran did.. couple that with me thinking Duran beats Benny head to head... then you have why I rate Duran over Benny... but not by much.
Who? You're just being anti heavyweight. I know your kind. Sizist! Thanks. I think? I was raised on Bizzarro world. Over there Philadelphia was a sports town. He's possessed by the ghost of frankenfrank! Quick someone get a priest! Or a hooker. I forgot how this works...
Little Red is easily one of the best posters on the forum. He's just a gay (as in happy, like) sarcasm *****. Behind all of his deceitful quips is the tree of boxing knowledge.