Billy Conn vs. Tim Witherspoon

If Witherspoon fought the bums Louis did in 6 ounce gloves, his knock out ratio would be through the roof.

 

I love spoon (No homo- It's a Philly thing), but I just can't agree w/ this!

 

So you're implying that Tim Witherspoon's power is on par with Joe Louis's?

 

I'm saying that if Witherspoon had fought a bunch of circus freaks and cruiserweight dock workers in 6 oz gloves, his KO would be higher than it actually was.

 

I agree. But not as high as Louis' would have been if he got to fight cruiserweight dock workers and circus freaks with 6 Oz gloves.

 

So what do you suppose Joe Louis does to Greg Page, Tony Tubbs, Bonecrusher Smith, Floyd Cummings, Renaldo Snipes, Mike Williams and all those others that went the distance with Spoon? You don't think his already stellar KO rate doesn't skyrocket against these types?

 

:good

 

I don't subscribe to the "Louis walks through everyone because he fought in black and white" school of thought. I look at the film at make my own conclusions. Louis couldn't deal with movement. He was very hittable and did not have a great chin. Conn didn't have much of a punch but he hurt Louis. Louis got knocked out by a cruiserweight in Schmeling and I don't rate Schmeling very highly at all. Did Louis ever fight a heavyweight with a really good jab? Did he ever fight a southpaw in his career? I think these are fair questions to ask. I look at the film of Louis and I don't see anything indestructible.

 

It troubled him, yes. But what movers did Witherspoon look so formidable against? Who was he forced to stalk and wear down?

As was Witherspoon. Both had decent defenses, but nothing special.

No, not great. But it must have been at least somewhat good if he was so easy to hit as you claim. Otherwise how was he able to take it from the big whackers like Baer? Or Walcott's nasty left hooks?

True, but remember that Conn's KO rate spiked considerably when he moved up to heavyweight. They were so easy to hit that Billy just wore them down. He hurt Louis because, like every other HW, he hit him a zillion times.

No, he got knocked out by a former HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION. One who had twice as many fights and considerably more experience than young Joe. And Schmeling was as good or better than many of the guys that Witherspoon faced. Not all, but many.

Do you fault a young Muhammad Ali for almost getting starched by a 7 pounds LIGHTER (than Max) "cruiserweight" like Henry Cooper?

Jimmy Bivins, Joe Walcott, Lou Nova, Lee Ramage (GREAT jabber).

Fair, but not really relevant. How many southpaw heavyweight contenders have there been? Not too many. Heck, Muhammad Ali fought the best of 2 decades and even he only fought one (Mildenberger). What southpaw should Joe Louis have fought?

OK. But what do you see when you watch films of Tim Witherspoon? Something "indestructible"?

My questions are fair too

 

I gotta say, this is a great post; good points, so well put.

 

Tim would not even get close in the era of fit heavyweights...Tim was typical of the 80's...he would not compete with the elite in Joe Louis's era and Tim's best wins were close SD's his KO's were over the KOable ...Louis would clean out the 80's much like Tyson did but with more style, class and form...it would be a thing of beauty...Tubbs,Holmes,Witherspoon,Page,Coetzee,Thomas,Tate,Weaver,Snipes,Berbick,Dokes, it would be the bum of the month of the 80's

 

Tim takes this.

Easily.

Probably by stoppage.

 

He took many hard shots from Louis throughout the fight. Witherspoon is no Louis in the power dept, so if Conn can take it from Joe, he could take it from Tim, which was my point.

You underrate Conn. In fact he beat ranked heavyweights, so he has more than troubling Louis as a credit at HW. "Inferior"? I guess that depends on perspective. He keeps fighting Joe like he did for the first 12 and a half rounds and he most likely takes the fight. The loss had more to do with Billy making a bad call.

 

The size deficit would be a problem for Conn, but he could beat Witherspoon based on his form vs Louis.

 

for me, it was the best losing performance that i've ever seen. he was amazing that night