Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

I respect Ray Arcel and he did see the best of past and current to his death thing is we all have our favorites...I respected Nat Fleischer's experience and knowledge but Nat also had his own flavor and memories when younger sometimes can distort the best of our recollections causing bias or then again we were eye-witnesses so that also may carry some weight....I don't know if Jack Dempsey was as good as Ray says because he did not fight that many 15 rounders or was as active a champ as his predecessors but Dempsey for me was the greatest champ up to that point in time and until Louis there were none like him. Could he have beaten Marciano,Louis and Ali,Tyson,Lewis who really knows but I would not rule it out

 

Louis was nothing special.

Ali was nothing special.

Dempsey would destroy Foreman, Ali, Marciano and Louis.

Some real credible opinions from Ray and Jack there.

What laughable ****.

 

Pelkey, porky Flynn, Jim Flynn, Carl Morris and Gunboat get my vote :thumbsup

 

Why did you exclude his KOs of Bill Brennan, Battling Levinsky, and Homer Smith? Brennan and Levinsky were both respected contenders in their primes, and the latter also a future HOFer. Neither of them had ever been stopped before, at least to our knowledge.

Also, why do you presume to have the complete records of some of his lesser known opponents?

 

The majority of modern fighters do have that kind of record on their way to winning a title, and most are probably even weaker.

Mayweather and Calzaghe had far weaker records before winning a title IMO. Even Ray Leonard's pre-title record was probably weaker, or at best comparable to Dempsey's IMO.

How many modern fighters beat a future HOFer on their way to winning a title?

 

No, just no. Everything.

 

Yes Brennan was outpointed by Greb - but did the fact that Joey Maxim was (for all intents and purposes) (discounting freak heatwave) beaten by Ray Robinson mean that Joey Maxim wasn't a decent name to have on your record? (for anyone who had Maxims name on their record)? Brennan was a tough tough guy and a very awkward and competitive opponent to face as he proved versus Dempsey on film - Greb just happened to be a pound for pound freak like Langford - losses to either of them doesn't really reduce your level of ability - the experience against guys like that only makes for a more seasoned fighter IMO

 

People that denigrate Dempsey's skill, don't really understand boxing.

He had an intricate understanding of all styles, but the style that he used predominately is, perhaps, the best style you can use against taller men.

Look at it this way. Chisora, not overly skilled, too heavy to move fast, and not the best puncher, gave Vitali one of the hardest fights of his career due to his bobbing and weaving style he utilized.

Now, imagine for a second if you replaced Chisora with a fighter that was faster, better, and had a more explosive punch.

I'll put it this way, you replace Chisora with Dempsey, Vitali would be retired from boxing today.

 

Honestly, when I watch Johnson vs Williard, I don't see anything Vitali does that's any better than Williard.

Williard rolls his shoulders just Vitali does when the punches are coming from angles.

Vitali uses his height to lean back and away from punches, so does Williard.

There are remarkable similiarities.

Jack Johnson was the Micheal Jordan of boxing. He was the best athlete in the world.

Imagine if the best athlete in the world was boxing today.

You don't give these older guys enough credit. If only I had access to more film when they are up close and fighting, I could even have more insight into the nuances of the fight game.

When I watch Johnson fight, I see where Hopkins learned some of his craftiness. Johnson would pick his shots, and then he would come in with a compact guard and short, rapid fire punches, that nobody in today's era would be able to get away from.

Additionally, he knew how to handle swarming styles and would have beat Dempsey as well.

Anyway, my point is, the era was fueled by racial tension, was wide spread, and only the best fighters in the world made it to the highest level.

Dempsey was on the top of the mountain, and if you read his books, and likewise, if you read Johnson's quotes, you can tell they had a deep understanding of boxing, even if they were so good at their craft, it became instinct.

It was a different era, and the things that Dempsey talks about work.

Most of the guys today are non-punchers that don't have good fundamentals, and there are few boxers in today's game that can implement the bob and weave style.

If you put Dempsey in today's era, he knocks Wlad Klitchko out.

Vitali is tougher, but in 12 rounds, it would be close, but I could favor Dempsey.

 

Levinsky beat Gunboat Smith when Smith was still rated as one of the top HWs in the world. He also held wins over future HOFers Jack Dillon and Billy Miske at the time Dempsey beat him.

Also, your dismissal of Morris for having "lost 4 of his previous 6" is flawed, since 2 of those 4 losses were also against Dempsey. Morris had actually scored his biggest career wins over the prior two years.

Ultimately, Dempsey KO'd several legit contenders, including one HOFer, on his way to winning a title.

 

Funny that you can appreciate the intricacies of boxing but start crying like some confused homophobic little ***** any time any other style of fighting is mentioned.