Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Jan 18, 2013.


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  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Both of them. Yeah, I'm impressed.
     
    Unforgiven, Jan 21, 2013
    Unforgiven, Jan 21, 2013
    #211
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Johnson's was a slow climb, it's hard to compare.
    Dempsey's was an 18-month campaign, a barnstorming KO tour and some KOs of some contenders.

    While it should be noted that Dempsey dropped a decision to Willie Meehan in a 4-rounder in 1918, and didn't face Harry Wills, who was probably the other leading contender, it has to be said that Joe Louis's run at the title was rudely interrupted by Max Schmeling and Louis's managers then did their bit to de-rail Schmeling's rightful first shot at the title.
    Not saying Louis's record wasn't uber-impressive going in to the Braddock fight, but it's a clear example of the machinations of shrewd management being the deciding factor.
     
    Unforgiven, Jan 21, 2013
    Unforgiven, Jan 21, 2013
    #212
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    janitor, Jan 21, 2013
    janitor, Jan 21, 2013
    #213
  4. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    :deal
     
    PetethePrince, Jan 21, 2013
    PetethePrince, Jan 21, 2013
    #214
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    But I haven't done that. That would indeed be unresonable. It's the equivalent of seeing that single line and deducing that the fight was controversial in the absence of any other evidence. I mean you literally can't even say you've seen a report that has the fight to Levinsky!

    Why? Greb almost certainly beat the guy twice before Dempsey fought him. That's as close to a definition of fighting leftovers as i have ever seen. You want him to beat him three times to qualify? Or four?


    You can say he won it in the opinion of the huge majority of ringsiders, as far as we are aware. This is the exact definition of every valid points victory in history.


    People overlooked it all the time at the time.
     
    McGrain, Jan 21, 2013
    McGrain, Jan 21, 2013
    #215
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Lots of fighters had beat Levinsky before Dempsey did.
    (I'm not sure Clay Turner didn't beat him in the fight previous. Reports differ)
    But no one had knocked Levinsky out before, according to Levinsky and the available record.
    Hardly anyone KO'd him after either, despite him fighting until he was all washed-up and almost 40 years old.

    In that respect, it's a good result for Dempsey.
     
    Unforgiven, Jan 21, 2013
    Unforgiven, Jan 21, 2013
    #216
  7. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Boxing Addict Full Member

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    a good result yes but considering it's one of the best wins for what some say is one of the best fighters ever, it's not that impressive
     
    Nightcrawler, Jan 21, 2013
    Nightcrawler, Jan 21, 2013
    #217
  8. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    Similar to Louis versus King Levinsky.
     
    Manassa, Jan 21, 2013
    Manassa, Jan 21, 2013
    #218
  9. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i'm a massive fan of wlad's. and if someone asked me to rate his resume, i'd say it's lacking. he is in a sub par era but fights the best he has. no all time greats though on his ledger
     
    Nightcrawler, Jan 21, 2013
    Nightcrawler, Jan 21, 2013
    #219
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yeah despite Greb being a clear better choice, the levinsky victory is still great.
     
    lufcrazy, Jan 21, 2013
    lufcrazy, Jan 21, 2013
    #220
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Dempsey could punch like mule kicks. And he often sold out his entire game to land big punches. I ain't going to deny that.
     
    Seamus, Jan 21, 2013
    Seamus, Jan 21, 2013
    #221
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Good, not great.

    People got excited when Sam Peter knocked Jeremy Williams cold as a cucumber. No one had done that before. A similar head-turning victory but not a great one.
     
    Seamus, Jan 21, 2013
    Seamus, Jan 21, 2013
    #222
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Down to brass tacks then.

    How many local papers are you aware of having scored the fight for Greb?
     
    janitor, Jan 21, 2013
    janitor, Jan 21, 2013
    #223
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The crucial difference is that Levinsky was actualy regarded as being one of the better contenders of the period, while Williams wasn't.
     
    janitor, Jan 21, 2013
    janitor, Jan 21, 2013
    #224
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, or to get down to brass tacks, why is fighting a guy another guy is beaten twice not leftovers and why is a one line second hand summary indicative of a controversial fight? But to answer your quesiton, one.

    Plus the wire, plus the four or five indicating Dempsey won on Boxrec plus two others (unless they are covered by the Boxrec detailing, I can't remember of hand). So that makes a ratio of something like 7-1 (or 5-1), overwhelmingly in favour of Greb. Unless, of course, you are excluding The New York Times Report, the Pittsburgh Post report and all the others that aren't printed within a few miles of where the fight took place for some reason.


    Thomas Hauser HBO 115-114 Bradley/Pacquiao
    Bart Barry HBO 116-115 Bradley/Pacquiao

    Controversial? Not because of the cards against, that's for sure.
     
    McGrain, Jan 21, 2013
    McGrain, Jan 21, 2013
    #225
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