Dempsey's vaunted run to the Title

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Furthermore, it was the bigger guys who were actualy the champion and top contenders of the day.

Can we bring this Dempsey/Greb vs. common opponents argument back down to earth please?

 

but this is the issue with dempsey...his legacy relies too heavily on descriptions by fans, followers and cornermen. this should not and can not replace and objective analysis of resume.

if tyson were in the 20s, imagine the descriptions we'd hear of him??
the precision and power we'd read about louis?

if roy jones had no or limited footage and we relied on descriptions and praise, NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE HE WAS REAL

take away the love, the stories and praise of dempsey. take away the one liners and sound bites. when you get to the meat of dempsey, who did he really beat?

 

Ah the old carpet bomb a quote tactic.

 

Gunboat smith had Jack out on his feet? Not good...

 

In all seriousness, I bet Lee Ramage would be raved about had he appeared on Dempsey's record. He doesn't stand out on Louis' record.

 

"Roy Jones Junior is the greatest boxer the world has ever known"-Jem Mace

 

Lee Ramage would be about 5 years old in 1918, so no.

 

I'm surprised your love for old times is stronger than your love for small fighters.

It is true that Greb never fought Willard, Firpo and Fulton as far as I know. However, having said that, Willard had been inactive for 4 years at 37 years of age, didn't do much after Dempsey either. Firpo looks worse than the amateurs in my gym (and is smaller than some of them, too). How he managed to score two knockdowns is beyond me (but then someone will bring up Tunney's quote of how Dempsey was impossible to hit on the chin). Good wins but they don't overshadow Greb's dominance.

So that leaves Fulton who was very good when Dempsey destroyed him. However, I don't think that compensates for the fact that Greb beat Dempsey's key opponents first and more often, but more important: where Tunney one-sidedly beat Dempsey twice, Greb went a competitive 1-4, 2-3 or 2-2-1 against him, depending on interpretation. Not to mention Greb didn't lose to Meehan.

So, yes, on the whole, middleweight Greb did better than Dempsey against common opponents.

I know it hurts, but the truth has been suppressed for long enough.

 

The available record of Billy Miske against Harry Greb and Jack Dempsey :

1915 v. Greb - 6 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec :NEWSPAPER DRAW)
1918 v. Dempsey -10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec :NEWSPAPER DRAW)
1918 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER LOSS)
1918 v. Dempsey - 6 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER LOSS)
1919 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER LOSS)
1920 v. Dempsey - LOST BY KNOCK OUT 3 ROUNDS

boxrec also has Tommy Gibbons beating Miske twice before Greb or Dempsey did, so maybe Greb and Dempsey were feasting on Gibbon's left-overs ?

 

The available record of Tommy Gibbons against Harry Greb and Jack Dempsey :

1915 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER WIN)
1920 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER WIN)
1920 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER LOSS)
1922 v. Greb - 15 ROUNDS DECISION LOSS
1923 v. Dempsey - 15 ROUNDS DECISION LOSS

 

The available record of Bill Brennan against Harry Greb and Jack Dempsey :

1918 v. Dempsey - LOSS BY KNOCK OUT 6 ROUNDS
1919 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER LOSS)
1919 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER LOSS)
1919 v. Greb - 15 ROUNDS DECISION LOSS
1919 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER LOSS)
1920 v. Dempsey - LOSS BY KNOCK OUT 12 ROUNDS


:think Can someone double check this please. I can't find where Greb beat Brennan before Dempsey knocked the **** out of him in 1918. I might be going blind.

 

The available record of Gene Tunney against Harry Greb and Jack Dempsey :

1922 v. Greb - 15 ROUNDS DECISION LOSS
1923 v. Greb - 15 ROUNDS DECISION WIN (*disputed)
1923 v. Greb - 15 ROUNDS DECISION WIN
1924 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER DRAW)
1925 v. Greb - 10 ROUNDS NO DECISION (boxrec: NEWSPAPER WIN)
1926 v. Dempsey - 10 ROUNDS DECISION WIN
1927 v. Dempsey - 10 ROUNDS DECISION WIN