I think that this probably had a bigger impact on the heavyweight timeline than people think. Johnson was looking at getting out of the fight game by 1912, and wanted to cash out with a series of big fights. He had signed contracts to fight Sam Langford and Sam McVea in Australia, and also to rematch Fireman Flynn in Paris. There was also talk of a fight with Luther McCarthy promoted by Jack Curley. Lets say that Johnson takes these fights, and regardless of the outcomes he retires.
Underlining his supremacy of that era by beating 2 of his top 3 contenders (HOF none the less) and then defeating 3 of the best white hopes, catapults him into my top 3 again. (he took a minor dip after I revaluated the career of Lewis)
The whole thing would turn on the Langford fight in Sydney. If he got past Langford, then the chances are that he would have got past McVea, and Flynn would have been a mere formality. McCarthy was not ready for him yet, and in any event he would likley have died before the fight took place.
tbh even though he dodged langford like the plague, I don't see Sam having the beating of Johnson. Too big, too skilled.
I was actually going to start a thread with some articles I came across. He did talk about retirement, maybe as early as 1911. HE did also sign to fight Langford Read up on it, he didn't, he signed contracts to fight Langford/McVea in Oz, which were pulled on him due to his relationship with a white woman
Yeah but Dempsey also signed contracts to face wills and not everyone takes that as evidence against ducking.
Dempsey pulled out of that fight after not getting his guarantee fast enough. Johnson had the contracted offer rescinded after 'the scandal' of being with white women under the Mann Act. Then there was Johnson's legal issues. Johnson was tied up from 1912-1913 with this legal issue and was convicted on charges that were committed prior to the law even existing, which in itself is a miscarriage of justice. The law of itself used ambiguous language such as 'immorality'. Johnson was the first charged with the offence and it was quite probably put into law for himself. The whole thing was a stitch up. Johnson was made a fugitive and effectively ran out of America. It really did seem like a revenge for beating Jeffries The fact the offer was from Australia anyway and not from America shows there American authorities or people had no desire to see 2 black men fighting for the title. There was a reason they were 'white hopes', the hope was a white man would win the title back. Some do say Johnson didn't fancy the job and he preferred to play safe. He could have fought Langford in 1913 perhaps, but was the money there? He went to court in 1912, but I'm not sure if his legal situation was contentious from 1910-1912 too, I'll research it some more.
Ali many times in the 70's talked of retirement but he fought on. Fighter say many things. I don't see JJ retiring. His flight to Europe softened Johnson greatly....wine, women and song. More than likely the timeline does not change much. JJ fights on and keeps winning until age and time beat him. If you think about it if JJ was matched with Willard in a more typical 20 rounder instead of a 45 round marathon he probably retains his championship. Could it be that he holds the championship until Dempsey crosses his path in 1919-1920?
Do you work in law or something? This the second post I've noticed of yours where you seem very clued up on the ins and outs (other one was about football I think).
How many men do you think could be charged under this act? Here's one who got 20 months. This content is protected This one was acquitted. This content is protected Charges dropped against the guy below. This content is protected The Genie below served 10 months of an 18 months sentence. This content is protected This little sweet heart was convicted under the act too, but the authorities had bigger things in store for him. This content is protected As the Act was originally worded anyone could be prosecuted who travelled over a state line with another person with the intention of having sex . Its been somewhat clarified but is still in force. A preacher is awaiting trial under the Act at the moment. http://www.pbs.org/unforgivableblackness/knockout/mannact_text.html
When it was introduced (1910) and implemented originally, the Dept. of Justice were keen to focus entirely on commercialised vice, human trafficking gangs, etc. It was felt that prosecution of individuals was trivial, would be expensive, and would ultimately be a waste of everyone's time. The way the Act was enforced was that if there was already a previous sexual/'immoral' relationship between the two people involved then no violation had taken place in the event of a cross-state trip. Accordingly attorneys were instructed to only prosecute commercial cases and not bother with minor, technical, individual ones. But you're right, the wording left it open to interpretation depending on particular motives and cases. An exception was made to prosecute Johnson partially because of who he was (and how he'd come to symbolise and embody disorder and vice in the eyes of the reform movement), and partially because for some reason the District Attorney at the time (James Wilkerson) was so insistent on getting him, despite the Attorney General advising him to proceed with caution as it was clearly the sort of technical, trivial case they had been told to avoid. At one point it was heavily suggested that Jack was involved in a prostitution ring which transported white prostitutes en masse across state borders. This was nonsense, of course, but it didn't stop Wilkerson and the Dept. (in league with the Bureau of Investigation) pursuing and ultimately securing a conviction on very shaky grounds. Jack was originally charged with, I think, 11 counts of various things, which were gradually whittled away as the investigation wore on. Plus he was of course originally charged with kidnapping his soon-to-be second wife, which again was a load of **** and fell apart as quickly as it was put together. Once the investigation was originally announced the public had already made their minds up that he was guilty (this was at a time there were effigies of him being lynched around the country and other lovely things like that), regardless of the charges and evidence, and he was always going down.
