Wlad v Dempsey

I think Dempsey had great bobbing and weaving skills i dont think he was ''there to be hit'' when in his prime do you see him leaving the ring with his face all marked up, against Tunney it was due to his layoff and not being prepared for a fighter of Tunneys caliber look what happened in the second fight when he was better prepared he definatley did not have to get lead to Tunney because his face was swollen up. His chin was tucked right in his shoulder and didnt get hit alot even Tunney commented on how hard it was to hit Jack clean and this was a 3 year off Dempsey, compare it to how Ali's reflexes had suffered after 3 years Dempsey could still go and be elusive and i'll take what Tunney says because he was the one fighting him in the ring, and i dont understand why you say he didnt have a world class chin? Dempsey did have a little trouble with guys moving alot hence Tunney even though was not his prime he would of given him trouble in his prime but Wlad is no mover nor slickster, Wlad is there to be hit, especially from a guy with the speed of Dempsey and one that is willing to engage him and fight him

 

In the build up to the Haye fight, a bunch of my casual fan mates were picking Haye to knock Wlad spark out and uttering all sorts of ludicrous predictions about how the fight would pan out. I challenged them to lay a bet on it. They said sure. The nearer the fight came they all began to drop out one by one. All the bold predictions became qualified or lessened in their emphaticness; some even switched over in their picks. In the end I was left with one guy who'd bet a tenner on Haye by knockout and didn't have the nerve to retract it (I myself bet a hundred). Needless to say he wasn't well pleased by the end of the night.

Maybe my experience here was unique, though I doubt it. What it showed me is that it's very easy to make up any nonsense to support your fantasies, but even the most deluded of fans begins to come to their senses when confronted with the bare reality of the thing. With cross era matchups like this neither side will even be in fear of being proved wrong, hence the increasingly ludicrous and unsubstantiated things both sides can come up with. Ultimately of course some degree of logic has to enter into things, logic a little more complex than, "Dempsey beat Willard, that means he'd beat Wlad!" Unfortunately, that seems to be the nub of many people's argument.

 

The nub of people's argument is that he cant take a punch to the head or body and Wlad is not un-hittable.

 

Wlad is better than Willard to be sure...but i think the argument is a bit more than that. Wlad has lost to some guys with fast hands and fast week and agressive styles....two things that Dempsey had.


I actually pick Wlad here..but I think Dempsey is a live threat.

 

Yes, there is a little more to the argument, but not much more. The crux remains that because Wlad and Willard shared some physical statistics, because Demps beat Willard the hell up and Wlad was beaten by smaller fighters himself (though not that much smaller) who were perceived to have not been very good, then a highly ranked fighter like Dempsey would destroy him in similar fashion. It's just not a very sophisticated argument and doesn't take in any of the multitude of factors that would swing the outcome the other way.

 

Even past prime Dempsey had a very good defense....

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I voted Wlad and posted why I think that though.....

 

I have seen shots of dempsey fighting tunney in which he looks like a young tyson...other shots in which he looks like frazier at his best...still others in which he is doing a mayweather like shoulder roll..i think his defense is a bit better than some give him credit for.

 

i think the best dempsey vs the Wlad of 8 years ago? Dempsey may well have a better than 50% chance...but Wlad has gotten better, and i have to pick Wlad.

 

Dempsey looks slow, rusty, and a half-step behind. He's dodging but he's just not looking fluid there at all.

 

i dont know if i would say firpo repeatedly tagged him....Carpentier got him with a real nice straight right....beyond that i wouldnt say he was getting hit on too much.....i think Dempsey kept his right hand up well to block a left hook..he was more suseptable to right hand.

but its tough to say how much a 185 pound dempsey could absorbe from a 225 (given prime in shape weight) Tua.

 

nevermind..i was thinking i was posting on the tua vs dempsey thread...

 

Dempsey didn't just beat Willard and Fulton though, he anihilated them.

Of course these fighters are not as good as Wlad, but they were good enough between them, to give us a prety good idea of how Dempsey matched up against the type stylisticaly.

We have to acknowledge a strong stylistic argument in favour of Dempsey.