How long does Patterson reign for if Liston and Ali are removed from history?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by PowerPuncher, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Fun thread for the day. Patterson is generally considered a second tier champ because Ali and Liston dominated him. But no one else those 2 aside beat him until the late 60s when he lost contentious decisions to Quarry/Ellis.

    He beat 1 of the fighters he was protected from in Machen and beat Chuvalo and Cooper

    The biggest threats seem to be Terrell and Cleveland Williams, who have massive size and strength advantages over him
     
  2. AREA 53

    AREA 53 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I suspect defences a host of defences against such Buster Mathis and Doug Jones would keep Floyd ticking over, Zora Folly and Leotis Martin might of proved interesting, ultimately it might of been Jimmy Ellis by debateable decision (as played out in gottenburg) or Joe Frazier by definitive Stoppage who got to Floyd first...Circa 66- 67... Of Course Jerry Quarry was coming into his own as well, Once you get to 66-67 the New Blood is coming through.
     
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    I'd imagine Floyd reigns up until Frazier emerges.

    Williams wouldn't beat Patterson, he'd get knocked out I reckon.
     
  4. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Not long. He likely loses, but likely regains the title for a third time. I could see Williams bouncing him around or getting a stoppage. Maybe Terrell. But I think something happens and he ends up regaining again. I don't see him reigning 10+ years. Patterson can overcome adversity, though.
     
  5. TED 822

    TED 822 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Seem to remember a quote from Liston that Williams would knock out Patterson,but Im not so sure.Maybe Floyd would be too quick.Machen I feel was a better fighter when Cus DAmato was avoiding him than when they actually fought,and was maybe on a par with Folley.These would have been very tough defences for Floyd,likewise Harold Johnson,a great fighter when Floyd was champ.But Im sure none of them would have blitzed him twice.Liston was a very great heavyweight IMO.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    I don't think Terrell had massive strength ,and he did not utilise his height, usually fighting leaning forward. Either might take a decision.

    I give Williams a real shot at stopping Floyd, he was relatively quick handed and hit extremely hard, not ideal qualities for Floyd to deal with. Both had less than stellar chins so its probably a win by the quick route either way. Folley ,and Machen are dangerous , but I give Floyd a slight edge.
     
  7. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Floyd is the champ for the better part of a decade (maybe more) over his two, or even three, reigns.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Good analysis B. E.:good

    Stylistically I think Frazier would be all wrong for even a prime Floyd .

    I give Floyd redemption for a pretty shitty reign , because as an aging ex champ he took on a lot of the iron of the division and held his own with them, an honourable man ,and a very good fighter.
     
  9. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Cleveland is the 1 style I think is a nightmare for Patterson, in many ways like Liston but much faster
     
  10. amhlilhaus

    amhlilhaus Well-Known Member Full Member

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    for a decade? floyd had a very poor chin, and someone somewhere would have checked it, like ingo did.
     
  11. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hence my noting its possible that he might have three reigns instead of the two he ended up with.
     
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    yeah I reckon individually I favour him over every hw around until Frazier but someone would have ended him, just a matter of who gets the upset.
     
  13. FlyingFrenchman

    FlyingFrenchman Active Member Full Member

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    I think he would beat Terrell, Williams, and Folley among others.

    A case can be made that he deserved two wins over Quarry instead of a draw and a loss. Had Patterson been HW Champ would it have made a difference? Would he have won those decisions?

    His loss to Jimmy Ellis was pretty close. Had Patterson been the Champ going into that fight would it have mattered?

    I think that had Patterson not faced Liston or Ali that he may have faced Joe Frazier around 1967 and lost the HW Title to Frazier.
     
  14. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ernie Terrel beats Floyd circa 1964.