The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats

What you been up to?

I disagree.

I understand this is dissappointing for you, you've done good work in that area. They're reaching, those two, in that company though. They may yet be back. Hold Agnott to your bossom (think of a tier if you have a strong mind about it, you like him where he is ok?).

 

Tommy Gibbons beat:

Carpantier, Kid Norfolk, Billy Miske, Harry Greb, Willie Meehan (KO1), Chuck Wiggins, George Chip, Clay Turner (when Clay Turner was good), Battling Levinsky (who fought a who's who and regarded Gibbons as the smartest). He beat a lot of em more than once including Greb.

Between 1911 and 1923, he lost two fights, both to Greb who he also beat twice.

In his career, he was only beaten by Dempsey, Greb and Tunney, and lost to Miske on a DQ whilst hosing him. It's actually rather insania given his level of competition.



Mike beat:
Sid Burns, Jeff Smith, Tommy Connors, Willie Lewis, Mike O'Dowd, Battling Ortega, Eddie McGorty, Solidier Bartfield, Jeff Smith, Harry Greb, Wildcat Ferns, Al McCoy.

Mike's only win over Greb was a six round newspaper win in 1917.

Both are to some degree definied by their series with Greb and both benefited from meeting him pre-prime, but Tommy's 1920 win is over the real deal, and some sources have it as a ****ing hiding.



But then Tommy was bigger. So the question is, does Tommy's superior career arch overeach the reputation that Mike enjoyed amongst some peers as being the superior of the two? My answer is no. I think Tommy should rank higher, and I think it should be high. I'm looking at box four for him:

Gene Tunney, Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones, Terry McGovern, Billy Conn, Kid Gavilan, Stanley Ketchel, Eder Jofre, Tommy Loughran.

But could live with V:

Julio Cesar Chavez, Ruben Olivares, Alexis Arguello, Jose Napoles, Emile Griffith, Jack Britton, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Jimmy Bivins, Tommy Ryan, Jimmy Wilde.


Thoughts on these two?

 

It's a long, long way to go my dude. Plus, we'll get to about 90 and things will be really ****ed up. Because all the dudes we are leaving out. What about Solly Krieger and ****? :|

I hear you. But I care more for the case that's been made for than against, if i'm honest. And there's one more thing. I'm a bit of a veteran here and if I have people telling me in one ear i'm overating a guy and in another that i'm underating him, I feel i got that guy about right. But you've read my concerns - there'll be a De La Hoya reckoning I promise.

In addition, the whole thing is getting run past a couple of forums including General and Classic here when the thing will float or sink. If there's a leak we'll see it.

 

His reputation as an absolute wizard, and the depth of his resume. I know a lot of those names aren't household but there was a bit of a sizeist problem back in the day. Take someone like Houck. He beat Meehan, Jeff Smith, George Chip, Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsk, Frank Klaus, and was considered a fine scalp for Greb when they met - but unless you go looking you've never heard of him, or if you have it's in passing, probably as a Greb opponent. I actually don't think there is that much in it between them in terms of resume, no ****. It's just Tommy's names are more familiar.

It's their respective archs that do it for me. Tommy's career arch is insane. Three guys beat him - all are great and two are in our top 30. That's how good you had to be to beat this guy. The best.

 

I think Surf-Bat has the works on the smaller Gibbons and he has an impressive rep to say the least.

 

Finally got the punt, eh? I warned you about that CHB thread.