Is it safe to say Wladimir got the worst chin of the top 10 heavyweights?

A thought provoking post, Magna.

I think it is quite a common thing among males (us bureaucratically minded creatures...I mean, you never see a female train-spotter, do you?), to want to be able to break everything down into manageable, neat, tick-box categories. "Power - Moderate to Good; Chin - Very Good to Excellent." Makes us feel better, to think we can comfortably get a handle on a subject by organizing it. OK, it's certainly a start...but it is far from the whole story.

It's like the children's card came, 'Top Trumps'..."Ha! My Earnie Shavers Punching Power '10' beats your Joe Louis, only Punching Power '9'!" As you say, it's simplistic and doesn't stand up to deeper scrutiny.

A lot of this single-minded focus on 'stats' (which of course are vital in more linear sports like sprinting, jumping, weight lifting etc) is why we have clashes on ESB with some denying that many 'Old time' fighters like Greb or Langford could be elite in today's game.

As you say, being a great fighter comes from being able to put a multiplicity of factors together. Many subtle skills fused with a warrior's mentality, as well as isolated physical attributes.

I dunno. I suppose some people think that the best singer is the one who sings musical scales pitch perfect; rather than the one who can bring you to tears with the emotional impact of their song.

Or that the most beautiful woman is the one with perfect, classical proportions when tape measured; rather than the girl who can melt your heart with a glance.

 

Kurupt,

Yes, he was buzzed by the punch. Johnson went down, had to brace himself to get up, then lost his balance ( Fighters tend to due this when they are buzzed ) after landing a hard right. When he got up again, he was resting on the ropes.

I posted a news report that says Johnson was in fact hurt by the punch. Ketchel could hit for a middle weight, but come on—he never starched a 190lb contender did he? Johnson’s chin is suspect. He just had a safety first style, used excessive clinching, ( sometimes using what would be warned or called as a foul today ) , and the smarts to limit the other guy from reaching it. But above all else, he really didn't face a heavyweight puncher in their prime during his title reign from 1908-1915, outside of Willard who KO’d him with a ten count. You could say Gunboat Smith could hit, and the result of their 4 round exhibition match in 1909 adds additional evidence that Johnson when hit by a hard shot did have a suspect chin.

 

True, but getting the Wlad of the last half dozen years into panic mode before he gets his opponent into deep, deep waters is very difficult. People seem to think it is as simple as landing a single punch. What they ignore is the extreme damage he inflicts while his opponent is trying to get him to panic. His offense is hyper elite in terms of power and accuracy.

 

Wladiqueer has no chin you homos ... Anyway you put it he simply cannot take a punch to the face

A four year old would put him down COLD if he was caught unaware

 

The credibility of this post went completely out of the window with the opening word.
KURPUT. !!! atsch:rofl:rofl

 

Tony Zale once said ,"there are not so many glass jaws, but a few glass hearts . "

 

Wlad is pushing 37 years old. He has essentially ruled the division for 6 or 7 years, as long as Holmes, longer than Tyson, longer than Marciano, longer than Frazier, longer than Dempsey...

Say what you will about the challengers he faced but his legacy does not require he face another generation of heavies.

 

You realy are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Do you realy think that Sanders was some head to head dreadnought?

He was just a second rate contender who would have been second rate in any era. Even if I bought into the idea that the curent generation of heavyweights were too big for the best contenders of Louis's era, I would think Sanders far enough rmoved from the best of his era that the argument held little water.

Yes there is actualy.

Every single fighter that you have listed there was better than Sanders, most of them much better.

Sanders is a limited puncher with only one good win on his record.

Braddock beat Max Baer, Art Lasky, Tommy Farr and John Henry Lewis.

Baer beat Max Schmeling, Primo Carnera, Tommy Farr, Pat Comiskey, Earnie Schaff, Tony Galento and King Levinsky.

These are exactly the kind of world level wins that Sanders resume so conspicuously lacks.

Of course Sanders beat Wlad, but we can hardly weight that in his favour when we are using him as a yardstick to measure Wlad.

 

Wrong. By the truism that regulates the sport in a general sense, weight divisions, he would do better in an era where heavyweights averaged under 200 pounds. Please note the "general sense" caveat. Sure, we can pick and choose among our fighters to back any argument. But as an overarching precept of the sport, size matters. If not, let's do away with weight divisions. Sanders was large and fast and fairly devastating for 5 or 6 rounds.

Having covered Sanders with actual press pass (miracles never ceased in those days), the Cooper win was his "coming out" victory. The Coles and Czyz victories supported the estimation of his abilities. The Tubbs and Lane affairs threw up some flags. For some reason, either his or various promoters, he did not get the offers that befitted a talented, white heavyweight with an exciting style.

Sanders beats the last 3 emphatically, most likely blasts them out, yes, even Farr. He had a field day with smaller fighters. Wlad is still a much better victory than Baer.

Baer is the greater fighter. Head to head, I can see Sanders tearing him apart. Baer displayed horrible form in the ring, defensive holes so big you could drive a truck through them. He was, however, tough as nails, possessed a very good chin and hit like a truck himself.

Yes, he had bad career management and at times seemed uninterested.

 

...He was a heavyweight champion with a ton of wins, and fews losses.

Limited at the world class level, maybe, but still good enough to kick any of our asses(Except maybe mine...but I did not want to mess with that glorious moustached SOB, RIP).

Again, I feel boxing fans lack so much perspective. Go to a gym, befriend a pro, follow him for a decade.

 

That guy was hilarious. Hope his ambitions haven't gone up in flame yet, we need a heavyweight with attitude.

Not meaning to come down on anybody, just, damn. There is being critical, and there is disrespecting a dynamite athletic accomplishment, and we cross the line here really, really regularly.

I might be especially sensitive to it. The two greatest nights of my life, the fans ruined for me in a matter of hours.