The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats

About McGovern- I think his peak compares to anyone's in terms of champions beat and asses kicked. Knocked out three champions and a slew of contenders. Essentially he is what the Dempsey legend tries to portray.

 

William Harrison is relegated to tier 8. Double M, I would like to stuff a battered MarsBar up your Tartan orifice!

 

Indeed.

 

Quite a thread to follow. I don't know what I've missed but I still think it is criminal to have Lennox Lewis above Joe Frazier on a P4P list. I'm fine with Lewis being ahead on a HW list, considering the SHW he is. This is not meant to be an anti-big SHW message when it comes to P4P lists either. Frazier was simply a superior fighter in my eyes, and their losses and biggest victories reflect that. If the emphasis is on longevity, rather than how great a man was when he was the man. Sure, I guess there's some case for Lewis. You might as well drop Marciano a few more tiers down if that's the prioritized way of ranking the fighters. Frazier at his very best was better than Lewis at his very best (When the hell was that, exactly). Lewis caught the tail end of an ailing 90's and dominated it but never took hold over the decade at its strongest. Frazier reigned king under the pinnacle of the golden age of the 1970's.

Lastly, match them up H2H and if you even consider giving Frazier 30% respective odds then you've already admitted he's the superior operator pound for pound. Throw them up with other HWs in a tourney and Frazier will be somewhere not too far down in a H2H list (He's rather underrated, unfortunately. Getting trashed past your best against ATG HWs is apparently less forgivable than getting wiped out in one punch by two soup belt-holders I guess). I repeat, I do not dislike Lennox Lewis. This is just my case and point on the matter.

*Edit* The very fact you have Roy Jones Jr as high as you do proves the list is more about the beast of the man when he was the man, rather than record and or sustained longevity.

 

I don't really get Zivic's ranking. He needs to drop two tiers below Larry Holmes IMO.

Who is Apostolino?

Is Basilio being considered? Win over Ike Williams, Billy Graham, Tony DeMarco (Twice, Underrated fighter IMO), Johnny Saxton (Twice), SRR. Lost a controversial/close decision against Gavilan. And wasn't he basically robbed in Chicago against Saxton the first time out? Two weight champion. Tough as nails and gave some of the best fighters as good as he got.

Boilermaker probably wants a consideration for Joey Maxim.

Any consideration for Johnny Dundee?

Is Lou Ambers being underrated? I think perhaps.

 

No, a lot of their fights were close. In some valid arguments, LaMotta was robbed in at least one of those fights (I've heard arguments as up to two of them).

 

Basilio ain't in?

That's my big gripe with the list then. He's greater than recent guys like Barrera, Morales, Toney and I'd have him over Kid Berg and Benitez and several others as well.

 

Welp I was going to post but then big O said it for me. Nice stuff. I thought Basilio was in though. That needs to change for sure. Tier x even for now and it can be dealt with later.

 

If you think as highly as I do Frazier you would think he would, though. He still has Chuvalo, Bonavena, Ali, Bugner for an array of bigger, sturdier, and taller fighters. It's certainly better than having your best wins be about beating smaller fighters. And does the Vitali Klitschko fight really merit Lewis P4P supremacy? Please tell me it doesn't because it can't.

What are LL best wins? Comparatively, it's a big enough gap. Lewis has quantity, but does not have the same quality. So in essence it does matter. Shall we even get into his losses. We're talking about HWs where anything can happen. It's mystifying when KO losses get thrown about as flukes when it happens not once but twice to guys that shouldn't be doing **** on the elite level.

On another note. This has got me thinking that Mike Tyson definitely needs to make the top 100. I don't care if he is the last name on the list he should make it.

 

I'd have Tyson in there, too, personally, but I'm not terribly bothered by him missing the cut.

 

Agreed, definitely over Toney and Barrera. I'd have him over Benitez, too.

His loss to Kid Gavilan gets overlooked. I think losses tend to get overlooked. It's all wins wins wins. But what about how a fighter performs in losses? This is why guys like Basilio and Conn should get more credit. Hell, even LaMotta too.

Did Berg even win a world title? Know nothing of him, really. Basilio seems he should be higher.

 

Yeah, it's not criminal or anything. But a lot of this list seems to favor H2H ability at a fighter's peak. I don't personally think Jones Jr merit his placing based on record alone, but it's not magic that he's that high he looks terrifyingly freakish at his best. Tyson has that similiar quality too. His dominance streaks speaks for it self. We're above the bollocks of if you stand up to him he wilts nonsense.

 

Ok, let's help McG fit Basilio in.

Tier IX
Fritzie Zivic, Pascual Perez, Bob Foster, Panama Al Brown, Azumah Nelson, Mike McCallum, Sammy Angott, Lou Ambers, Oscar De La Hoya.

Tier X
Sammy Mendell, Pete Herman, Teddy Yarosz, Young Griffo, Johnny Kilbane,

Tier XI
Jake LaMotta, Erik Morales, Wilfred Benitez, Larry Holmes, Benny Lynch, Juan Manuel Marquez, James Toney, Fidel LaBarbara, Beau Jack, Lennox Lewis, Kid Berg, Ad Wolgast, Marco Antonio Barrera

 

Just above or below Oscar depending on your preference. I'll vote below for to avoid controversy I guess.

But then again, Zivic seems high and Ambers seems low. I don't really rate Zivic ahead of Basilio. Zivic was like a more rough-housing version of Basilio without the skills. Has a good slew of names of wins, and somehow stopped Armstrong. But has a slew of losses, and was the loser of most series. But a real tough & rough SOB. But above Foster, Nelson, McCallum, Ambers? I don't see it.