Who has the better SMW title resume... A Ward or S Collins?

In 96 is when it should of happened..

In 99 Collins was retired, and completely unrated and had done nothing at LHW. If he had taken a fight other than Jones, and at least climbed into the rankings and proven himself to be a threat at LHW, then yes ill give you that it would have been good. But without doing that, it was better for Jones to go after other belts and other top rated contenders. A lot of those guys were top rated and coming off of wins, and have victories over fighters that you credit for Jones' downfall as they were a "step up" in competition.

Didn't Collins plan a comeback but couldn't because he wasn't healthy enough? and you think he competes with Jones Jr? Would have been a horrible fight in 99, Collins would have been destroyed and it would have meant absolutely nothing.

 

They are similar in the fact that they called out Jones and Calzaghe who pretty much ignored them for whatever reason, but it is ok for you that Calzaghe didn't fight Froch, but not ok that Jones didn't fight Collins. I am talking the 99 version of Collins that called Roy out in the ring.

That is the logic that is twisted, it has nothing to do with Calzaghe fighting Collins. Calzaghe seems to be your exception, even when he does pretty much the same thing as fighters you hate on for doing, like Jones.

 

Yes, the Fraizer fight in 99 was more credible than fighting a retired 168lbser.
Also,as I mentioned frazier was a stay busy fight. It had been less than 2 months since Jones fought Grant.

Jones would go on in the next fight to fight the IBF 175lbs champ who had a win over Collins.

Jones was in his prime, he used to get **** for fighting guys like Telesco who was a ranked 175 lbs fighter. Imagine the **** he would have got for fighting a retired 168lber who wasnt even undisputed at 168 when he fought there.

Jones would have been pillored for taking a fight like that.

The WBO title was not recognsed as one of the big titles in those days.

Collins wasnt a big name in America, he fought there early in his career,and got beaten then times he stepped up.

He came home, got 2 great wins over Eubank,and beat a faded Benn twice.

You seem to be massively over-estimating how popular this fight would be in 1999.

It wouldnt be a huge fight financially, and as far as cridibility goes, it would have been a joke.

Collins had NEVR fought at 175.

He had been retired for TWO years.

His last fight was against a club fighter who knocked him. In 99 it would have been FOUR YEARS since Collins beat Eubank.

He held a belt that wasnt widely recognised at the time.

What part of that equation would make this a big fight?
We can both agree that it wouldnt have been a credible opponent boxing wise, but I dont even see how it would have been a big money fight.

If ya held it in MSG or somewhere,you'd def get the Irish crowd out to watch it, but besides that,what makes it a big money fight?

Jones would have been ridiculed for fighting a retired SMW,when he(Jones) was considered the best on the world.

 

knockout artist,

Hiya pal, hope you've had a good weekend.

I'm loving your new avatar. Ha!

I used to play Evander's game on the Mega Drive (I believe that the Genesis was the U.S. version) when I was around 14 in 1994. I used to rent games from the video shop across our road. My mate used to buy all of these computer magazines with all of the cheats in it. I used to play that game by typing in "The beast" ha! Did you ever do that? Nobody could beat him. Those were happy days!

I just don't think there was any demand for the fight. HBO didn't want it, and like I say, it would never have happened anyway, because Collins wasn't fit enough. He retired whilst training for Joe. So it would have been a disaster. The time to fight him was the mid 90's, like the others have said. But you have to see things from Roy's perspective. Roy had embarrassed the best guy at the weight, and we know that the Levin's didn't want to deal with King. I personally don't think that Roy was desperate to fight Liles and Benn, but I think he would have done under different circumstances. So Roy couldn't unify. So if he'd embarrassed Toney, and couldn't unify with Benn and Liles, then I don't think he would have been bothered about Collins who had the WBO belt. It was a bigger challenge going up to 175. That's how I think that he saw things, but obviously that's only my opinion. But I don't think Roy feared him.

I think he should have followed him up. He could have had a few fights there and got ranked. I'd have like to have seen the fight, it would have been good at 168. But all of this "Roy feared him" etc, is just nonsense to me. If he feared Collins in his 20's, then he wouldn't have gone to heavyweight in his mid 30's. It's as simple as that. We know he wanted Hopkins again to shut up the critics, and we know he was willing to fight DM in the States. We also know he was desperate for Tyson in 2003. So it's ridiculous for people to imply or say that that he feared Collins. He lost 25 pounds in a rush, to come back for a fired up Tarver, at 35, after 50 fights. So nobody's telling me that he feared Steve when he was 27-30. I just don't believe it.

I've read his posts, and Chad must be unbelievably thick to try and put any blame on Scully. He knows Scully is an intelligent guy that's got integrity, and who's very respected. It was obvious that he was going to tell his side of things and give a no holds barred account of what actually happened. How does this make Chad look now? Now everything's out in the open? I think he'll have lost a lot of fans. I won't be cheering him on in his future fights.

Yes I would have thought so. HBO didn't want to show the Frazier fight. Larry was angry after the fight. You can see that in the post fight interview. But again, Collins had been inactive. I think if HBO had've had a straight up choice between Frazier and Collins, then they'd have picked Collins. But I think that they'd have preffered any of the 4 guys that were mentioned in the video above Steve. We'll have to ask Mind Reader and Irish for their opinion, because I don't think Steve was a big name over there, and I don't think there was any demand for the fight whatsoever. I just wish that around the time that Collins got in the ring with Roy, that Joe had decided to give it a go at 175. That would have been great.


Nice talking to you mate, just reply whenever you've got the time, there's no rush.

 

You've made some fair points. Telesco hadn't done anything compared to what Collins had done, but what Collins had done was in the PAST.

Telesco was a young 175 fighter that created a bit of a stir when he came on the scene, with his knockouts and his mouth. Collins who was obviously 10 times the fighter Telesco was, hadn't done ANYTHING for 2 years. HBO were fed up of Roy's taxi driver mando's and they wanted Roy to fight one the four fighters who were mentioned in the Frazier post fight interview. Collins wasn't one of them. HBO would rather have made a Telesco fight than a Collins one at that time. It didn't really matter what Collins had done in the past. Telesco was an active fighter, and Collins wasn't. Who apart from Collins and his hardcore fans, would have wanted to have seen that fight in 1999?

The other thing to consider is, Collins wasn't fit enough to fight anyway. We know that HBO wanted Collins to fight Joe C, with the winner potentially fighting Roy. So even if Roy had agreed to fight him that night in Pensacola, the fight would never have happened anyway.

 

Blah blah blah bull****.

Collins was retired for 2 years,had done nothing at LHW, still has done nothing at LHW. Roy was right to not take him serious, he wasn't even physically able to fight!! What don't you understand about that? There were many other fights HBO wanted to see first and for good reason.

Calzaghe fought lesser and lower ranked fighters than Froch, while Froch showed huge interest in fighting him. Roy Jones had other business way more important than Collins at the time, which some of it never got made, but I think about that way before I point at him for not fighting Collins at that time. Not fighting Collins in 99 is no big deal, at all.

 

Hi mate, thanks haha I didn't have a megadrive back in the day, we had a SNES Games in those days were the best, I'd love to dig out the old SNES (if it's around somewhere!) and have a go on the old Mario games again. Seeing the Holyfield-Bowe fights years ago (not live but some time after) really got me into the sport as a fan, Holyfield, Hearns, Leonard, Hagler, Duran, Lewis and Mayweather are my all time favourite fighters. I also love watching the old great HW fights of the 70's though it's before my time, so many great fighters in that era. These days you can still see some of the great fights, and old documentaries on ESPN classic

Yeah Steve did collapse in 2000, but how was Roy to know that would happen? He still didn't agree to fight him. Why couldn't they fight in the mid 90's? I refuse to believe that Steve would have refused the fight, Collins would have fought anyone anywhere, he was a warrior. I saw an interview with Roy the other day, when Steve Collins name was brought up Roy got very defensive and started yapping on about 'I never ducked or dodged nobody' (which we know to be a lie), I think he's agreeing to fight Steve now because he feels uncomfortable about the situation.

Yeah I agree, at the end of the day, Roy had been fighting all his life, I don't think he was 'afraid' of any man on the planet. However, where there's easier money to be made with less risk, Roy took that route. Beating Steve Collins in their primes, would have been a better win than John Ruiz for sure though, does anyone rate John Ruiz? As said, it's about risk reward, he was happy to fight Reggie Johnson who was past his best, but Roy wanted $12m to fight Darius and no-one was ever going to pay him that, if he was serious about getting Darius into the ring he needed to be willing to take less money. But no, I wouldn't accuse a professional fighter of being 'afraid'

I know Chad has lost a lot of respect from fans on here. Personally, I put a small amount of blame on his whole team including John Scully, because they should never have agreed to fight at 168, or in Oakland. Obviously I'm not in Chad's camp, I don't work with him, but just off my own observation, taking a big strong LHW down to 168 was never going to be healthy. However, the way Chad handled the situation after the fight, and sacked John was terrible, considering he never allowed to work effectively in the camp itself.

I agree they would have preferred the guys in the graphic, but 2 of those fights were never going to happen, and Roy would have known that himself. Though I don't see why they couldn't have fought back when Collins was WBO SMW Champ either? I don't think you can put any blame on Steve Collins for this fight not happening - though I'm sure general zod will come up with a 4 page statistical boxrec analysis of how Collins ducked Roy Jones

You too mate, thanks for the response and get back to me whenever you can

 

bailey,

Telesco was active and moving up the 175 rankings. Collins hadn't been active. That's all there is to it.

I don't know anybody that wants to see that fight. I don't think it's going to happen now anyway. We haven't heard anything from Collins for a month, and he was supposed to be having a scan and a very thorough medical.

Nobody of any note. I'm not comparing him to Collins. I'm just saying that HBO wanted to match him with Roy, because he'd got a lot of knockouts, he was moving up the rankings and he'd made remarks about wanting to fight Roy in post fight interviews. They thought that the bad blood would sell the fight. You can see in the fight that they were both constantly insulting each other. Collins was ten times the fighter that Telesco was. But at that specific time, there was more interest in Telesco, than what there was in a guy who hadn't fought for 2 years, and who'd never fought at 175. That's the only point that me and Mind Reader are making.

Fair point, but there was a big difference between Vitali coming back, and Collins coming back. Fans had been wanting Vitali to come back for a long time. There was a buzz when he returned. It was big news. Collins wasn't a big name, and it didn't create a lot of interest.

They weren't interested. They didn't even try and conduct a proper interview with him. Lou De Bella didn't want to show a fight with Collins at that point anyway. We've all seen the links.

Possibly. But not HBO and De Bella.

It wasn't possible. He apparently got knocked out by Howard Eastman in sparring. Afterwards he recieved medical advice, and then decided to call it a day. If he couldn't get fit to face Joe, then how could he have got fit to face Roy? It was a blessing that the fight was never agreed.

He was definitely willing for it, and I've got nothing but respect for him. He desperately wanted Roy, but he was always in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Collins was not a big name in the U.S. and the WBO belt he had wasn't respected. Roy had embarrassed Toney, couldn't unify with Benn and Liles, so he dismissed Steve and moved to 175.

Steve never followed him up. He called him out again in 97, when Roy was preparing for Griffin, and then again in 1999.

I'm certain that had Steve been a major belt holder at 168 or 175, then I honestly believe that Roy had've fought him.

Roy's options in mid 96, was either to move up and fight Mike McCallum for a vacant 175 belt, or to stay and fight Steve for his WBO belt. What was the point in fighting Steve? Unless it was for a huge some of money, there was no point in fighting him.

Steve was a big name over here in the U.K. but he wasn't in the U.S. Like Joe, he could have moved up to 175, impressed, and moved up the rankings. If that had've happened, they could have become mado's like Frazier was. It was not beyond the realms of posibility. Roy's only interest when he was at 175, was the fighters who fought at that weight. Minor belt holders at 168, were never going to get Roy's attention, once he'd made the decision to move up.

 

What had Telseco done over Collins?

Fought and get ranked at 175...and he was active.

What part of Collins being retired for 2 years, and never having fought at 175,and not being a big enough name to make it financially interesting dont you understand?

Collins wasnt a big name in America. He spent his early career there,and had been beaten when he stepped up. Thats what America knew of him.

And you think people would be clamouring to see the then P4P No.1 fight a guy with little name recognition, NO experience at LHW and who had been retired for 2 years?