When people say "modern training" what do they mean?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Johnstown, Feb 25, 2013.


  1. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    The one thing that always gets overlooked in these debates is population genetics. There are so many more people in existence today that the sheer numbers of freakish athletes are going to be higher. Even if there were no differences in training and nutrition, the larger number of athletes would still exist...and a large percentage of these people would go into professional sports.
     
  2. Johnstown

    Johnstown Boxing Addict banned

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    thats true..of course that should only matter for heavyweights.....were having a bigger pool of bigger people will matter. (although, if you have a bigger pool of anyone the best should be better, which is why big schools usually have better sports teams than small schools...having said that, one could question if more or less people are inclined to box today, in my grandfather and fathers days (1920-30, 30-40s) my town had 3 or 4 boxing gyms...kids learned some basic boxing in grade school gym class...most boys who had any balls did a little boxing..and many did a bit more boxing than that, and some even did allot,) Now a days (I live in western pa) i think we have 2 legit boxing gyms within a 50 mile radius of where I live.
     
  3. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    1. It matters for all weight classes. Most dramatically at heavyweight, but still across the board with straw and fly being possible exceptions
    2. The rest of what you're writing about is a geocentric argument. Boxing is more accessible worldwide today, and various countries are producing legitimate pros today that weren't in the past.
     
  4. Johnstown

    Johnstown Boxing Addict banned

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    how is it relevent for a 160 pounder..explain it too me (and please don't say what Larry merchant once said before being smacked down by steward...that middleweights are bigger today)
     
  5. john garfield

    john garfield Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I have no stats in front of me, J, but my recollection of the '40s' 'n early '50s was:most middleweights were between 5-7 'n 5-9. It was such a hot division because fans related to them.
     
  6. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    I'm talking about freakish athleticism. Roy had it. Gamboa has it. Pacquaio had it, still has some of it. Wlad has it; for a guy with his dimensions, he's a very gifted athlete. So there are more people in the population with athletic gifts and that entails more athletically gifted big men, who are able to raise the bar for what the proper size for a heavyweight should be.

    Any gains in training today are icing on the cake.
     
  7. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Johnstown owning some people here.
     
  8. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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  9. Johnstown

    Johnstown Boxing Addict banned

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    yeah..but that has to do with same day weigh ins....guys couldn't dehydrate as much...when you can weigh in the day before you can also go and cut 10 even 15 pounds of water weight and then rehydrate by fight night. That means modern 160 pounds are really 175 pounder by fight night.

    Hell hatton use to be about 157 on fight nights when he had weighted in at 140....

    thats why guys seem "bigger" even at the lower weight classes.
     
  10. Johnstown

    Johnstown Boxing Addict banned

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    well you have named 4 guys.....stretching over the past 20 years really....


    Do you think I could find 4 other amazing guys from any other stretches of 20 years of boxing history?
     
  11. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    I tend to view terms like "modern training methods" as synonymous with steroids.
     
  12. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    I sincerely apologize for stating a hypothesis in a previous post and then giving some examples of athletes because you dimly understood what I was talking about (bigger equals "freakish athleticm," yay!). My apologies, won't happen again.
     
  13. Johnstown

    Johnstown Boxing Addict banned

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    So you think guys have "genetically" changed over the past 50 years. Honestly, I should have just responded directly to that instead of questioning the example you gave of four guys. I should have instead just went to the root of the claim...that human genetics have changed over the past 50 years. To that the best response would have been "what are you, a ****ing ******?":good
     
  14. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    The opposite factor is recruitment to the sport.

    Back in the 1950's the US had boxing gyms on every corner. Now, MMA has taken over a significant portion of that lot, at least in my hood. However, on the flip side, the Iron Curtain has fallen and those folks seem pretty attracted to martial sports, boxing, K1 and MMA. The Latin Americans continue their great presence in the sport which began en masse in the 60's and 70's. The Southeast Asian presence has also been felt.

    So, it's a giant moveable feast and I think you would need a degree in high calculus to figure how it has panned out.
     
  15. Johnstown

    Johnstown Boxing Addict banned

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    yes that is a meaningful point...at least in the US the pool of guys going into boxing is smaller...

    i did mention that...but no neck schooled me by saying that isnt what he was talking about..and was instead talking about some amazing evolution in human genetics that managed to happen in only two generations even though no natural selection pressures even exist (fat dumb slow kids usually grow up find each other and still **** and make more babies...positive evolution is dead..if not retrograded).