Still trying to redo some of my rankings in the big 8 before trying to tackle the ******* divisions for the first time...How is this list and what needs to be adjusted...who is to high/low and who should be brought in and who should be removed??? 01 Benny Leonard 02 Joe Gans 03 Roberto Duran 04 Carlos Ortiz 05 Ike Williams 06 Henry Armstrong 07 Pernell Whitaker 08 Tony Canzoneri 09 Barney Ross 10 Lou Ambers 11 Alexis Arguello 12 Julio Ceasar Chavez 13 Floyd Mayweather Jr. 14 Jack McAuliffe 15 Freddie Welsh 16 Sammy Mandell 17 Joe Brown 18 Sammy Angott 19 Bob Montgomery (Please help me put him higher!) 20 Oscar De La Hoya 21 Ismael Laguna (Help me put him higher also!) 22 Juan Manuel Marquez 23 Beau Jack 24 Jimmy Carter 25 Ken Buchanan 26 Shane Mosley 27 Duilio Loi 28 Ad Wolgast 29 J.L. Castillo 30 Edwin Rosario
So stacked. My favorite division. Some guys missing IMO: - Packey McFarland - Johnny Dundee (never seems to get mentioned in LW rankings) - Battling Nelson - Jack Blackburn Subtract Blackburn. Lew Tendler instead.
I don't know alot about Mcfarland, nor his accomplishments at lightweight...other than a few brief articles and the sort....Where would you see him? Top 20? top 10? The other 3 names I considered and could be swayed?
McFarland was the best lightweight in the world for about 4-5 years. And during the time: some regarded him as the very best boxer (P4P) in the world. Top 5 for me, personally.
You got to find room for one of the toughes early great lightweights Kid Lavigne..He gave WW joe Wakcott hell in 2 bouts. I put Lew Tendler ahead of Bob Montgomery, as Tendler was a tremendous southpaw who gave the great Bennah 2 close bouts. And let us not forget the great left-hooker Charley White of Chicago. I put Beau Jack slightly ahead of Bob Montgomery though they split 2 decision bouts I saw in MSG. One of those was for a War Bond Rally, which my dad pledged $18.75 for a Bond which I redeemed years later for $25... In 1944 I saw bummy Davis ,a 1-8 underdog, flatten Bob Montgomery in 1 rd,with left hooks...Three weeks later I saw my favorite action fighter Beau Jack, soap up a devastating left hook by Al Davis, shake it off and give Davis a 10 round beating...So I have Beau Jack slightly ahead of Bob Montgomery...When will we see the likes of an Ike Williams, Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery, Sammy Angott, Willie Joyce, Freddie Dawson, fighting each other in the lightweight division ?
Put Packey McFarland in the top 10 (maybe even top 5). Billy Petrolle should be on the list. H2H I place Armstrong in my top 5. But his accomplishments at this weight are fairly anemic when compared to many of the others. So I would drop him lower.
Mosley was a big weight cutter with average opposition at the weight. IMO, the most overrated 135lber of all time.
Duran should be number 1, but I'm sure you've already carefully rehearsed your own rational for putting him at number 3, so I'll spare myself the argument. I don't think you need any help rating Laguna higher. His skills and record speak for themselves. His ranking is definitely flexible. I disagree about Montgomery though. I think you've got him as high as hecan possibly go, probably too high. I think 15 is too low for Freddie Walsh and Buchanan should be much, much higher. Both were far more proven at the weigh than Mayweather, Arguello, and Chavez. I think Ambers is interestingly placed. He has good scalps but can he rate that high given that he lost violently and noncompetitively to Jenkins. Yes, Jenkins had murderous power, but he's the worst 'good' lightweight champion ever.
Joe Gans / Benny Leonard and Duran all deserve the nr 1 spot. The top 3 lw's could be in different orders as long as these three are the top 3. Gans and Leonard have the resume, Duran the h2h ability.
Also, I'm intrigued that you have Rosario and De La Hoya rated at number 20. Those two must exist in some sort of lightweight parrallel ranking universe where Rosario rates between all the fighters listed from Laguna through Castillo but where he also rates the same as De La Hoya, thus meaning that he ranks above the fighters he's ranked below. This means that De La Hoya must also be rated above and below Mosley simoultaneously, which is oddly fitting. Fascinating stuff when particule physic and philosophy meets pugilism.
whitaker up arguello and floyd down ross over canzoneri mcfarland at least no 11 delahoya no way armstrong is ok there but could go down dejesus? tendler and nelson could make it mosley and buchanan should probably not be next to each other