Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

No more posting guys Frazier not overrated.cool.done :hi:

 

troll ^

 

pretty good resume. Foreman was his low point, but many guys would lose to Foreman so there is no insult there. The way he put himself back after Foreman into the 3rd fight with Ali was heroic.

 

He took Ali coming off victories over Quarry and Bonavena; which indicates that even though he might have lost he a step he was still damned good, at any rate. He lost an 8-4 ish decision and gave Ali hell in the Thrilla when he was more or less used up and blind in one eye, to boot.

None of that really works against him.

I think it depends on how you define ATG at any rate. Is Frazier a top say...30 great AT pfp..? Nah. I wouldn't say so, and I don't think anyone else does, either. Is he Top 10 at heavyweight...? Yeah, I'd say so...and if he isn't, he's not that far down the list.

Kudos on providing a list of fighters you admire, though. :good

 

Joke ????
Look in the mirror.

 

Ali called the first fight, Ali WANTED to fight Frazier in March 1971. Now, since Ali was the draw in that fight, it would have been too easy for Ali to have that fight in June 1971 or August 1971. But Ali, IMMEDIATELY after fighting a full 15 round--and very busy 15 round fight--against Oscar Bonavena in early December 1970, decided that he needed to challenge Joe Frazier in a very public way, and the fight got signed, immediately. At which point, Ali did a very stupid thing: Ali called Joe Frazier, the son of a sharecropper and a man who had faced and overcame hard times in America, an Uncle Tom. Calling Joe Frazier an Uncle Tom is like calling Rocky Marciano a wop, just plain damn stupid. And I was around in 1971, I remember the preamble to Ali-Frazier 1 very clearly. I specifically remember, more than anything else, Mo Colbert--an African-American, US Postal Service mailman, salt-of-the-earth, always straight from the shoulder--telling me on March 1, 1971, a week before the fight, "Brothers in Philly say Joe is running in the snow in combat boots, let me tell you something, Joe Frazier is going to kick Ali's ass and I'll tell you why: Ali thinks this is a fight but Frazier doesn't think this is a fight, Frazier thinks this is a war." And Ali, as he had proved against Henry Cooper and many other fighters, once again proved that he did not know, or care to know, how to block a left hook. If Frazier had a right hand like Joe Louis or Marciano, Ali never would have lasted ten rounds and there would have been no re-match. The old canard, "Ali wasn't the same Ali in '71 that he was in '67," does not wash. Frazier wasn't the same fighter in '71 that he was in '67, either. So what. Bottom-line, Ali was the draw and he called out Frazier, Ali wanted the fight ASAP after he beat Bonavena. You may not think Ali was ready to fight Frazier but Ali, for damned sure, thought that Ali was not only ready to fight Frazier and moreover, Ali well and truly thought he could drop Frazier in the sixth round, or before the 6th. So, if Ali thought he was ready to fight and defeat Joe Frazier, I'll take his word for it. Joe Frazier, of course, decided that he needed to teach Ali a lesson on never calling a black man in America an Uncle Tom. And Mo Colbert was a prophet. Vice Frazier, he will always be known as the first heavyweight fighter to defeat Muhammad Ali, and he defeated him very convincingly: 8-6-1 (referee, Arthur Mercante); 9-6 (judge); 11-4 (judge). The only thing that held Ali up in the 11th round were the ropes. If Ali had wanted to train up at Deer Lake all winter and all spring for a summer 1971 title fight against Frazier, it would have been too easy. But Ali didn't want that. He wanted the title fight against Frazier and he wanted that belt back, real quick. Joe Frazier, who with Jack Dempsey and Mike Tyson had one of the best left hooks ever, decided that he didn't need to give Ali what he wanted. Frazier fought a brillliant and tough fight to defeat Ali, defeating a previously-unbeaten heavyweight champion who had been training a year and had fought a full fifteen rounds against Bonavena four months before, in December 1970. Long live Joe Frazier.

 

Oh, hi thread. You're back. Great.

 

I think this should end the thread !! Well said !!

 

This has got to be either one of the dumbest threads ever started or the guy is brilliant at trolling . . . possibly both

 

:deal

What 20 guys would the OP have in front of him?

 

It really isn't even subject to debate. He does.

IMO, he beat the man twice.

In Manila, regardless of the official result, he outfought his old foe and was the one that didn't want to quit.

 

So let us lay down this criteria on other fighters

What ATG did larry Holmes beat?

What ATG did Tyson beat?

How did Evander Holyfield do against ATGs bearing in mind in his prime he lost to Michael Moorer - Frazier never lost to anyone as poor as Moorer.

What ATGs did Foreman beat if we are now to assume that Frazier is not an ATG

Did Marciano beat anyone better than the 'faded' Ali from the FOTC?

Did Frazier lose concentration during his career and lose to anyone of the calibre of Oliver McCall or Rahman

Can we postulate that Joe Louis beat a faded Max Schmelling but lost to the prime version?

This can go on and on

So yes Frazier is over rated but by the same token so is every other heavyweight

 

Joe was definitely an overrated swimmer :smoke

 

Great fighter, period, transcending era.

Bigger than Chagaev. :deal

 

:good

A potential decathlete he wasn't.