All this Klitschko ATG stuff....

Mayweather hasn't fought great opposition if you compare to history of ATG welterweights.
He's still a Top 50 kid.

 

The historical perspective.

Every heavyweight champion who has dominated a definable era, since the dawn of gloved boxing, has gone on to be recognised as an ATG in the light of history. They don’t need to beat other great fighters, or dominate a particularly strong era. The list will look like this:

John L Sullivan
James J Jeffries
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Joe Louis Barrows
Rocky Marciano
Muhammad Ali
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Lennox Lewis
Wladamir Klitschko

That is not to say that everybody on that list is greater than everybody who is not on that list, but everybody on that list is great.

 

Vitali hasn't dominated. He retired and in his absence wlad unified the division.

There's an argument out there that vitali is always better than wlad but the ring records don't reflect that opinion.

 

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I never understood the fascination with them being the same fighter.

Wlad is significantly greater imo. Vitalis sole claim to the championship was secured against a man wlad had already beaten.

 

I respect both klitschos but they have dominated a weak division that’s a fact, they are sometimes considered the same boxers because they have double teamed opponents, if one opponent has beat Wlad, Vitali has beats him and if Vitali gets beat Wlad takes him.

This means there is not a recognized number one in the division and has also made it easier for the klitschos to dominate because they have not had to rematch opponents who beat them.

I do believe Wlad will be an ATG but in my view Vitali is not but niether will be high on the list.

 

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Wlad is widely (and rightly) recognised as the no1 guy, he has been for years. I don't think there's any disputing that and a look at their respective resumes confirms it. He has consistently beaten a far better level of opposition than his brother.

I believe Wlad would beat pretty much all of Vitali's opponents, however Vitali would struggle with some of Wladimir's like Haye and Chambers.

 

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If you erase Vitali from the timeline, Wlad has to rematch or avoid Sanders and possibly fight Lewis, and Lewis may have fought on longer and retained Steward as his trainer. We would all be saying 'Wlad who? right now. This is why both Klits 'dominating' doesn't work. Vitali hasn't got the resume to be seriously classed as an ATG and Wlads achievements are built on Vitali being around.

 

Ive never understood the often made claim that currently there are 2 guys simultaneously dominating the HW division, its nonsense.

Vitali has a fairly weak resume & lost against the 2 best fighters he faced. Wlad ranks higher due to his longevity but the lack of great opponents & the 3 stoppage losses count against him, he isnt top 10 all-time.

 

So let's say there are identical twins who are highly talented but have limited opposition to face. Then one day a great fighter, Mr Challenger, comes along and challenges twin A to fight. A fight is arranged and Twin A wins. A few years later another great fighter, Mr Challenger the 2nd, climbs the rankings and challenges twin B to a fight. Unfortunately, Mr Challenger the 2nd dies in a car crash a day before the fight.

Even though they are identical in every concievable way, including talent, twin A is an ATG and twin B isn't?

This means if we plucked the greatest boxer to ever walk the earth and put him in a bad era he would not be an ATG.

 

Wlad got KTFO 3 times when the division was considered stronger, his fault entirely. If he'd managed to stay vertical and then go on and dominate a weak division entirely on his own, that's another story, but he didn't.


And yes, twin B doesn't get a pass. He has to hope another good challenger comes along. No-one ever became an ATG on theoretical wins, they were all fought for in the ring.

 

What Maximus said. Great point.
If big bro wasn't there to help him along the way he wouldn't be where he is today.
He took all the risky fights and fought his rematch for him.
And now he's cherry picking fighters out of nothingness for easy wins as as a champ.