How does history remember James Toney's...

He is a lesser great. Obviously not as good as Jones, Jr. Add the Tiberi affair and you have an inconsistent middleweight. He went on a fine streak before disappearing. Seriously, being "on the scene" back in the 90's, people considered him a fighter who had lost his way... Griffin and Thadzi were wretched performances, then a string of no-hopers. But he came back as great as ever against Jirov and Holy. The steroid thing taints his heavy achievements. All in all, a great but flawed and often disappointing fighter.

 

Toney wasnt 40 years old when he fought Griffin though. Lets not get carried away.

After Roy Jones, Toney became a lackadasical fighter at 175lbs. He lost some fire.

 

A record can speak volumes for itself! In fact it is the first and foremost primary consideration of any fighter. It isn't the numbers, it's who someone fights. Toney met and beat a number of top fighters from his era. Yes...there were loses...some legitimate(Jones), some inexplicable(the Tiberi win, the Thadzi loss) some debatable (Griffin). Toney is a great, but albeit inconsistent. Which at this point is getting to be ad nausem when typing that statement. At his best, Toney is someone capable of living with anyone in prime divisions of middleweight and super-middle...and furthermore later in his career challenged some of the rated heavyweights with success.That in itself is a very high standard...standards of which immortals like Harry Greb and Mickey Walker are well deservedly lauded for...that in itself quantifies greatness.

Don't attempt to imply that I agree to anything you typed...that is laughable.To do a proper rebutal, one must attempt to substantiate their rebuttal. All you are doing is nitpicking...just trolling basically. Please attempt to round out your argument...or don't waste people's time.

 

One of the best ever. MW,SMW,CW and HW champ.


Only 40 days after winning the IBF middleweight belt as a 17-to-1 long shot via d=brutal KO of Michael Nunn, Toney beat Reggie Johnson, a legitimate number-one rated challenger.

Toney found new life in the cruiserweight division, running off 11 straight to set up a title shot with IBF king Jirov, recognized by most as the best titlist for his seven defenses and crowd-pleasing volume attack. Toney had one of the great CW fights with Jirov,dropped him late and won his title.

Toney KO'd former champ Prince Charles Williams in 12 rounds going backwards!

Toney beat old Holyfield and stopped him,something Lennox Lewis couldn't do in 2 fights!

KO'd champion Iran Barkley in 9.

Also he fought Sam Peter twice and Hasim Rahman. He was never Ko'd and only dropped twice ever.

 

But unless you know the fighter and the context of the bout it is just a list of names.

If I showed my Misses the records of Joe Mesi and that of Toney, she would possible conclude that Mesi was better, as he did not lose. But others know different. You cannot have a record 'speaking for itself' as I mentioned it needs context and knowledge to judge it.

But that shows the limitations of the argument, as you had to expand to show his work above 168lbs, which is not what the starter of the thread wanted.

I totally agree, there is nothing more annoying than that!

 

True it is just a list of names to the casual observer...But at middleweight and super middleweight, Toney fought most of the name fighters except for Eubank and Benn. That in itself is a measure of Toney's willingness to fight the better fighters of his era. There is your context to that particular subject of how Toney's record at middleweight and super middleweight should be judged.
Given that, you mentioned Toney's (disputed) losses to Griffin. That to is above the weight limit on the thread starter's statement. You also mentioned Roy Jones Jr. would differ on the subject of whether Toney was a great fighter...???? How ironic that Jones has always considered Toney one of the best fighters of all time. That point you attempted to make does not support your viewpoint on Toney at all, and could not be anymore contradictory!!!
Yes it is somewhat annoying when someone doesn't care to take the time to substantiate an argument after attempting to belittle another's viewpoint...Calling it what it is...trolling.

 

Punch drunk

 

I think Toney will be well remembered by boxing fans. Inconsistent, yes, but just so brilliant when on his game. He's a bit like the Ronaldinho of boxing: never fulfilled his full promise due to lack of discipline, but that can be easily forgiven when you see him perform at his very best. Just sets the place alight.

 

A very good fighter. Great heart, chin, combinations and defense. Suffered mental lapses in and out of the ring and it cost him in his biggest fights there barring MM in my opinion. Still awesome.

and Roy still tooled him :tong

 

As a very good boxer, but also someone who did not live up to the pototional of his skills/talent/ability.

 

:thumbsup

 

Seriously he was almost obscure until the Jirov win. That W saved his career BIG time.

 

how the **** he went to become fighter of the year, what, 10 years after his last award i'll never know