Cloud - stamina issues Dawson - feather fisted stamina issues but still loses because Dawson gets a second wind after he gasses in about round 4 for a while Pascal - stamina issues 4 round fighter RJJ - totally shot stamina issues Kelly Pavlik - alcholic with you guessed it stamina issues Enrique ornelas - who ? Someone like a carl froch could beat that lot he's already beaten pascal which is arguably the toughest fight.
Nah. One thing I like about the culture of boxing is that they look more at the best things you did, as opposed to overvaluing longevity like they do in baseball. Hopkins is great for sure and an interesting character who has been good for the sport. But I wouldn't rate him all that much more highly for beating Cloud at 48. It's very impressive, but more of a novelty than something that would make me say "well, now I think Hopkins is better than Sugar Ray Leonard."
Bernard is absolutely an All-Time great, and he was a unique athlete whose continued success at the championship level through an absurd age absolutely grant him standout distinction. That said, top 10-15/15-20 he is not, at least to me, and he isn't anywhere close to that. He is, however, a genuine top 5 middleweight (I place him behind Hagler, Greb, Monzon, and Robinson), personally.
Classic forum folks will tear you apart for even thinking that a fighter who laced them up in the 2000's belongs close to the top 50 ATG.
I can think of 15 more accomplished fighters. I rank Hopkins above both Pacquiao and Mayweather. I don't think Floyd has a single win better than the Trinidad win. Many consider Oscar to be Floyd's best win, and a faded Oscar is not so far from a prime Kelly Pavlik. And a younger Oscar is probably a bigger challenge even with a size disadvantage. BHop's best 5 wins: Trinidad Pavlik Tarver Pascal De La Hoya Trinidad had only lost unofficially to DLH, and destroyed Joppy, showing his physical capabilities were not at all hampered at the weight. Pavlik was undefeated and had destroyed Taylor. Tarver had just decisioned Johnson and beaten RJJ for a third time, knocking him out 4 fights prior. Pascal had just beaten Dawson dominantly in a career-defining win and become champion. De La Hoya just put on one of his best performances in the robbery against Mosley, and IMO outpointed Sturm with body shots. He was small for the weight, but Hopkins came in deliberately light to mitigate claims of a size advantage. Floyd's: De La Hoya Hatton Corrales Castillo Cotto De La Hoya had just KO'd Mayorga, and while his offense was impressive, his chin saved him from several wild shots that landed clean and showed DLH's age. Hatton was a solid win, he moved up but showed no real disadvantages in hand or foot speed in the process. Corrales may have been drained, but the performance was an ATG one where Floyd was an underdog. The Castillo rematch was a convincing but somewhat lackluster performance after many thought Castillo deserved the nod the first time around. Cotto was looking sharp and versatile in the Margarito fight, and he definitely got up for the Floyd fight. Solid win. Of course, Cotto was not in his prime any longer. Then you factor in that BHop was the underdog in most of his best wins and was racking them up close to or past 40. I'd say it's quite easy to call Hopkins the best of this era, assuming Jones belonged to a previous one.
not a chance you cant just talk about wins you have to talk about loses as well. Being an underdog doesnt give you extra props for a win. The reason Mayweather was a favorite was because he was that damn good. Hopkins lost to RJJ Taylor Twice.
Ok, he lost against a prime RJJ, a better fighter than Floyd has ever fought; lost a questionable SD to Calzaghe past his prime, and was IMO robbed against Taylor twice past his prime. Then he lost to Dawson in a competitive but clear decision at 47. A loss doesn't erase or subtract from your accomplishments. Greatness is measured in accomplishments, not in a lack of missteps. It's not a game of who can avoid falling, it's a competition of who can reach for the stars and get the closest. Yes it does. It means you're taking on stiff competition, and it means you're rising above the consensus perception of your greatness. Hindsight may alter that, but Hopkins has pulled it off too many times against obviously dangerous fighters with no real redeeming excuses. Floyd being the favorite doesn't automatically subtract from his wins. Which is why I never asserted that. They are what they are. Again, RJJ is a better fighter than Floyd ever fought, so you can't hold it against Hopkins when comparing the two. I had BHop beating Taylor, but even if you had them as losses, Hopkins was already so far past his prime. It's not about the 0, it's about the quality of the number in front of it. BHop's wins are greater. Thus he has accomplished more, and therefore is greater.