Will history be kind to Evander Holyfield?

Didn't you have Johnson No. 3 after doing some research on him not too long ago.. Now he's no. 10 and on the brink.. While Tyson.. Foreman, Frazier are not.. YOU JEST.. I certainly hope so.

 

I will grant you that Bowe was by far the best fighter that these guys beat between them.

 

Well duh, Marciano's white.

No but seriously, I think Holyfield and Marciano are neck in neck on a P4P list but at HW surely Marciano ranks higher for me.

 

He'd been number 3 for ages on my list. After revaluating him not so long ago he's plummeted. The loss to hart hurts him in my eyes.

 

I doubt it, the guy lost to Toney for pete sakes.

 

I hope so, I watched Holyfields career live every second of it..

I taped it all and have re watched the majority of his bouts again and again..

He deserves to be in the top 10, he should be an Olympic Gold Medalist, we all know the deal there..

Dominated the Cruserweight division and won a war (15 rounds) vs Qawi very early in his career..

When he moved to Heavyweight he was arguably fighting better contenders then Tyson the Champion was.. Tillis was the gate keeper so he had to be Holys first heavyweight fight so throw him out..

Thomas 29-2 (he was pretty shot here) , Dokes was 37-1, Rodrigues 35-2, Stewart 24-0 24kos, McDonagh 19-1 (he wasn't much but he was a final tuneup before the title)

Smokes Douglas, Beats a far better Foreman then the one who beat Moorer much later, wanted Tyson but got a heavy puncher who on a good night is a nightmare in Cooper (bombed him out in a war) wanted Mercer but Holmes beat him so he got Holmes.. Beat Holmes..

Lost to Bowe , Bowe at his best in a great fight..
Beat Stewart again in a dull fight but another W..

The Bowe rematch was a thing of beauty for Evander.. He looked amazing in this one handing Bowe his first loss..

Lost to Moorer, Bounced back to beat Mercer and Mercer looked to be in the best shape of his career.. Let us also not forget he was the only man to ever Drop the Prime Mercer and he did it here as he pulled this one from the fire late to take the cards in a great fight..

The third Bowe fight is amazing but it may be safe to say that Bowe just kind of had Evanders number at this point.. Prime Holy finishes Bowe after the knockdown.

The Tyson fights cement the Legacy, he really gave Tyson a beating in the first fight and was on his way to doing the same in fight two before Mike lost it..

Bounced Moorer off the canvas again and again to even up there series..

After this point Evander was pretty much done being the Evander I grew up with.. He was already a much different fighter then the one I grew up with.. The one who beat Mike threw fewer punches and used less movement and basically would grind you down and out, he was a much more physical fighter now, he would grapple with you on the inside and looked to throw with much more power... This style may have actually been best for beating Tyson at this time...

He still went on to Draw with Lewis and give him a stern test in fight #2
Fight on even terms with Ruiz over 3 fights.. Beat the Rock, and some decent middle of the road guys like Oquendo, Botha and Savarese..

many of the later fights I couldn't really watch after the Larry Donald fight I just wanted Evander to walk away but he didn't... I have seen all the later fights now but I didn't run to the TV like I had back in the day..

Point of all this is coming from a lifelong Evander fan I hope history is kind to him because he deserves it, he it truly an ATG...

 

Holyfield is top ten ATG and the #1 best CW

 

Holy is a top 10 heavyweight. Bottom top 10 but he is there.

 

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Marciano
Foreman
Lewis
Frazier
Holyfield
Johnson
Tyson

 

The "loss" don't you mean.. the decision that should've gone his way?

 

I used to have that viewpoint and under modern scoring Johnson would likely have won.

Under the rules of the day, however, it was made clear aggression was the scoring criteria and hart maintained his aggression down the stretch whereas Johnson played it safe.

For every report saying Johnson outclassed him there is a report saying hart threw more and landed the more damaging shots.

I can't credit Johnson a victory here. To do so would be to rewrite history.

 

errrrrr... so a loss that you deemed sketchy is what puts him from no. 3... to no. 10 or out of the top 10.. That is odd. You yourself admit Johnson would've won under today's rules. You also admit, even under the rules of the time, many an article has Hart being LARGELY outclassed for the fight. Yet, this kinda of "loss" makes him plumment... Odd.. Odd indeed. What's even worse.. is you have people like Tyson, Holy, Holmes, Foreman and Lewis as locks... Johnson is more of a lock than they are... Yet hart, makes it not so.. Nah.. can't see it.

 

I dont deem it sketchy. Hart did what he had to by the rules of his day.

yes because giving him the hart victory meant i had Johnson as the number 1 hw from 1905-1915. I had him beating everyone he fought in his prime. Them kinda stats combined with a number of hof victories and very good eye test results led to him being my number 3.

However after my revaluation I class him as no more than a top contender until he beat burns. I then consider the context of said hof victories and this has seen him plummet. If he drops one more tier he's outside my top ten cos I pick Frazier, Holmes, Liston and Wlad to beat him.

Also I don't like the distance between him and Jeffries on my old list. This is much closer now.

 

That makes no sense.. JUST a top contender... There isn't anybody who beat him for 10 plus years... That is way way above TOP contender. That is THE no. 1 contender and rightful title holder but never got a shot territory. Virtually EVER next day article had Johson EASILY outclassing him when he felt like it.. right? Easily? SO because Hart keep on coming like Rocky Balboa and a human punching bag.. he got awarded the victory.. you don't think it had anything to do with the ref wanting to see the white guy win? I mean really?

 

By the way.. neither Foreman.. Holmes... Holy or Tyson have a resume that stacks up to Johnson...