Seems a mute query on the surface,as many of us already regard Muhammad as THE greatest heavy ever or number two,and Larry as a strong contender for third spot. Muhammad Ali provides the easier answer out of the two. Manilla,pure and simple. Holmes is a bit harder. In my opinion it could only have been if he'd finished after the Carl Williams fight in 1985.
Changed my mind about Holmes overnight. At the time of the Williams fight,he was already displaying signs over deterioration in the ring,and the consensus was that he was ready to be taken by a good fighter. Very few,if any,expected it to be Michael Spinks though. If Holmes had retired after the Cooney victory,his legacy would have been enhanced.
Holmes is easy. Fight fewer cans. If he'd offered Foreman enough money to lure him into a fight and then won, then if he somehow could have lured Teofilo Stevenson out of the amateurs. He'd have to fight Pinklon Thomas and Greg Page, not dropped the WBC belt to avoid his biggest threats, and rematched Tim Witherspoon and Mike Weaver (earlier than twenty years later).
Ali could have retired sooner before his loss to 6 fight Spinks and Holmes and Berbick Holmes could have fought the best of his era, skipping too many #1 contenders and co-champs and fighting the lesser men. Dokes,Page,Thomas,Coetzee,Tate,Weaver and if he rematched his tough fights like Ali, Louis and Marciano did...hard to judge how great someone is if they avoid the best of their own era and style navigate
Ali's losses while completely shot dont really tarnish his legacy for me Imo there is nothing he could have done, except maybe go through his entire career undefeated with Holmes, not much more he could have done, maybe if he had knocked out Ali he could possibly have looked better (a quick knockout over a neverbefre stopped oponent, while way past it, would have looked better than beating him up for 9 rounds) and unified Getting hold of and beating foreman also
I don't believe in early retirement doing anything but artificially inflate a fighter. Ali couldn't have done more than he did really. Maybe trained harder for Spinks 1 and then fought Norton after he beat young but he's already the goat. Holmes could have unified with any of the wba champs. Could have fought spoon after Frazier. Defended against Thomas and Page. Lotta room for Holmes to improve.
Ali could have stuck around for Tyson and defeated the trifecta of great bullies... Liston, Foreman, Iron Mike. He still had something left in the tank.
If Ali retired after Manilla we never would have seen his amazing regaining of the title a 3rd time in a great performance the 3X champ thing is a huge part of his legacy
Are you high? You think that the fighter that got beaten by Larry Holmes - that Ali - had enough to beat Mike Tyson at his most fearsome? I've heard some funny **** on here - but that's brilliant. That fight would have got stopped in one or two rounds and would have had nothing to do with Ali's original one time brilliance. I was just reading this thread chuckling to myself, what could either fighter be asked to do? Nobody could ask for more. I'd ask both fighters to stop earlier. Ali at The Rumble, I don't honestly know for Larry - but before he fought Tyson anyway. That **** was stupid and unnecessary. How could they have improved their boxing legends? Defied the laws of time and age, stuck around long enough to beat Lennox Lewis, I mean, really... Both men fought too long. definitely Ali. And Holmes could have been friendlier to the media.
Of course even old man Ali whups Tyson. Ali never backed down from bullies and would stand up to Tyson which was all you needed to beat Tyson apparently.
