Teach me about Marvin Hart

Umm what would ali do again? he would not OUT AGGRESSIVE Chuvalo... I don't know how you could think such a thing. Even if Ali changed his tactics and was more aggressive.. he's not winning that kinda fight with Chuvalo. Point is, the ref was not an experienced nor a well reconized ref... he was a promoter and thus used a criteria not typically used which favored fan approval... Even with that... more ringside accounts had Johnson winning... He OUTCLASSED Hart was said numerous times.. not one report I have read said Hart outclassed Johnson. Hart was a bloodied and puffy mess for his "aggression" Johnson look like he was in a chess match... The crowd roared for Hart.. which clearly might have influenced the decision. Point is, under mondern criteria or even criteria back then that was mostly used.. Johnson wins the fight and easily. how on earth people can take a backwards ass criteria used by an incompetent ref who was really the promoter... and go... Yeah it's a justified loss is beyond me.

 

He kicked the **** out of George anyway, by fighting a defensive fight.
Just as Johnson did to Hart whose face was described as a battered pumpkin . Jeffries was aggressive in his first fight with Corbett, and his second fight with Fitzsimmons, whilst they fought on the back foot, he was also behind on points in both fights and needed a ko to keep his crown . The difference was Greggains was not the referee in either fight. Charging forward and getting hit in the face doesn't win you fights in any era ,Tom Sharkey should have taught you that.

 

I think this thread is drifting into the old Hart-Johnson debate. Hart was a useful eneough performer who slipped a lot after losing the title. He was a strong favourite to beat Burns but lost the head and was never in it. However he did pretty well with Ruhlin, O'Brien, Gardner, Root- all good fighters and near peak. That kind of form puts him on a par with Maher, McCoy, Sharkey of a previous period and up there with Ross, Kaufman et al that came after him.

 

Punches that land cleanly in the scoring area are though. of course the old "imaginary line drawn across the hip bones," and upwards ,is negated by today's protectors that are half way up to guys tits.

 

Sums him up about right, getting his arse kicked by Ferguson , though he won the decision, keeps him from reaching any higher though,imo.
I don't think he would beat either McCoy or Sharkey . Ruhlin was too inconsistant to form a positive opinion about imo.
Root was handling him pretty well in their second fight until he got that body shot.

 

Another report on Hart-Ferguson (Then a top contender)
Shades of the Johnson fight?

HART GOT DECISION
OVER SANDY FERGUSON
Hot Springs. Ark, March 18 After
twenty rounds of hard fighting, Marvin
Hart of Louisville was given the decision
over Sandy Ferguson of Boston
last night. The fight was before
the Wnittington Park Athletic Club and
drew one of the largest crowds of the
Scason.
-Many thought Ferguson deserved a.
draw. Hart however
forced the fighting all the time, but he had much difficulty
in doing serious damage. On the
other hand, Feiguson landed many left
jabs to the face and sent Hart to the
floor in the seventh round for the count
of seven.
In the Iatter
part, however, Hart
fought fiercely. He landed many telling kidney blows, with a few hard face
and head swings and uppercuts
Ferguson was much the heavier and
had the longest reach. Hart weighed In
at 185 and Ferguson at 197. The betting
was 2 to 1 on Hart.

 

Joe Choynski on the Hart fight.
' "I had a hot time with Marvin Hart
in Philadelphia. Had tho bout gone
20 seconds longer, I think I could have
pushed him over. His awkwardness
and strength are marvelous."

 

The Ruhlin draw.

"Marvin Hart and Gus Ruhlin fought
twelve rounds to a draw to-night before
the members of the Eureka Athletic
Club. It was a hurricane battle from
start to finish, with Hart the originator
of all the fast work.
From the tap of the first gong Hart
started to rush his heavier opponent,
landing terrific right swings on Ruhlin's
ribs, and then trying right swings for the
head, and once in a while throwing in
an uppercut. It was after Hart had
carried the fight to Ruhlin that the latter fought back, and with some effect,
landing a number of hard swings on the
body and head. Neither was distressed
until the fourth round.
When the gong rang for the fourth
Hart leaped from his corner like a tiger,
and for a few seconds there was the
fiercest kind of infighting. Ruhlin gradually forced him to the ropes, and as
Hart tried to squirm away he turned his
head and Ruhlin landed a terrific right
on his nose, putting a long cut on the
left side. The cut bled freely, and in
another minute both men were bathed in
blood from their heads down.
Up to this time it seemed as if Hart
would certainly finish his man before the
limit was reached, but the blood blinded
his left eye and for the remainder of the
contest he virtually battled with only one
eye to see with."
and so on. The draw verdict was cheered.

 

And an amusing take on Hart's six round win over Ruhlin.

'Gus Ruhlin gave a remarkable exhibition of courage at the National Athletic
club last night
For six rounds he bravely stayed in the
same ring with Marvin Hart, and stoically concealed all desire to quit and rush for
the street
Gus was fighting under a great handicap He was not more than a foot taller
than the Louisville man, and could not
have outweighed him more than twentyflve pounds yet in spite of these odds
the Akron man never lost heart, and once
or twice actually plucked up the nerve to
fight back. "

 

Philadelphia Pa.. Nov. 20.1902
—Philadelphia Jack O'Brien and Marvin Hart
of Louisville went six fast rounds to a draw last
night. O'Brien had the better of the go
in the earlier rounds and In the fifth
floored Hart for eight second. In the
sixth, however. O'Brien himself went
down and took six seconds to recover".

 

Hope this has all helped, Magna.

The Title winning fight.
"RENO. Nev.. July 3.— Marvin Hart of
Louisville to-day knocked out Jack Root
of Chicago in tho twelfth round of a
fight for tho heavyweight championship.
Tho betting odds were 3 to 1 In favor ot
Root. The punch which compassed the
downfall of tho Chicagoan was a short,
powerful Jolt of the right arm to tho
body. The blow was delivered with terrific force .
It caught Root while he
was coming up. Koot reeled, tottered and
fell in a heap.James J. Jefferies towering over
tho prostrate form of the Chicagoan,
counted ten making Hart heavyweight
champion pugilist of the world. He might
have counted twenty seconds, for Root
was hopelessly defeated.. Up to this point
of the fight Root had an apparent lead over Hart."

 

Finally from the Boston Globe;

George Gardner -was Indeed a lucky
fellow to earn a draw with Marvin Hart
in their 15-round bout last night, for In
the second round it looked as If the
Lowell pugilist must surely go down to
defeat before tho husky young giant
from Kentucky.
The terrible left swing which landed
flush on Gardner's jaw, coming as it did
after the Louisville man had nearly lifted him off his feet with vicious drives to
the stomach, seemed to take all the fire
out of Gardner, and after that he was
fighting on his nerve.
Few people in the 4000 who witnessed
tho contest realized the struggle Gardner was putting up in the face of what
appeared to be certain defeat. He
fought a wonderful uphill battle and
should be accorded oil the credit due
Him.
...
The southerner left the ring his departure was greeted with prolonged hand-,,
clapping, while Gardiner was greeted
with mingled hissing and cheering.
For boxers of national reputation, the
men failed to furnish the exhibition
which was expected of them. Hart did
not do as well as In his former encounter with Kid Carter, and Gardiner was
fortunate in staying the limit, although
he did show aggressiveness after each
breakaway, but It was generally to enable him to get Inside and beat a tattoo
on the Louisville man's body.
Gardiner was Overmatched In Strength
and his blows did not appear to have
halt the effect of Hart's. The latter waded in, always willing to exchange
wallops, and he depended almost entirely upon his good right hand to return him the winner. But when In close
Gardiner worked his short Jolts and
uppercuts to advantage. Each was
guilty of holding as much as possible, In
order to avoid punishment, but Hart
did most of the forcing when they indulged in open sparring."

 

"Hart is said to love the quietude of farm life: the bleating of the sheep, the lowing of the cows, and the rustle of corn is music to his ears and he can now enjoy all this without fear that fight promoters will drag him away from his pastoral joys. Marvin Hart may be a good farmer. Let us hope so. No man can star in more than one line of work and certainly Marvin Hart was not cut out for a fighter.

The seriousness with which the public treated the aspirations of this self-style champion heavyweight is but another evidence of the truth of the saying that the American people like to be humbugged. Hart has been given a degree of prominence in the public eye that even a great fighter would be pleased to receive and all because he claimed that the mantle of Jim Jeffries had fallen upon his shoulders when he defeated Jack Root out in Nevada last year. The fact that he had done nothing worth while was not taken into consideration at all. He was a big man (Hah!) who appeared to have confidence in himself and the fight fans took him at his word and for a number of months paid homage to him."

Kalamaoo Gazette, 3/11/06

 

And then there is this unbiased estimation of Jack Johnson...

"There has been more or less whispering among otherwise well-informed sporting writers to the effect that Jack Johnson would be the next world's champion were it not for the fact the unfortunately was born with a black skin, all of which is nonsense, pure and simple. Johnson is a pretty boxer, nothing more. He showed in his bout with Hart last springer, where some of the selfsame critics declare that the poor black man was "robbed" that he could not hit ex-plumber hard enough to more than irritate him. He again demonstrated that he did not possess the punch when he fought Jack Munroe recently hitting the miner when and where he liked, but not once with force enough to send him to the floor, or even to his knees.
The negro has shown, from the beginning of his ring career, a persistent desire to "play safe" at all times. And these "safe players" never win out much in the long run - at prize fighting or anything else. No. Johnson can hardly be considered a championship possibility, from any standpoint, and it is safe to say that had he been in Jack Root's place Monday, he would have fared just as Rood did. He might have prolonged the fight a little more, but the result would have been the same."

Augusta Chronicle, 7/9/05