Sonny Liston vs George Foreman. Prime for Prime?

Foreman definitely had superior stamina. Liston was calm which helps but even when he started to sweat he started sucking wind. If you think Liston has better stamina because he didn't ever display stamina troubles the way Foreman had you're a simpleton. It's like thinking Mayweather has a better chin than Pacman because Pac has been stopped. The way their styles operate is like one guy fighting like it's a 5K and the other fighting like it's a 400 meter race. If you don't get that then you don't get the dynamics of sport.

 

Sonny never wasted punches.He had Joe Louis as a friend and no doubt would have listened to every word he said. Sonny moved his whole body while George just stood there also by your analysis(punch output) the Tua vs Ibeabuchi fight means Tua/Ibeabuchi had better stamina then Ali.

 

Against Eddie Machen. Against Mike DeJohn. Against several fighters in his career.

The fact that Liston never displayed any stamina problems and Foreman DID.

 

Now I'll throw the same question back at you- What indicates that FOREMAN had superior stamina exactly?

 

I don't really remember a high workrate against Machen, maybe I should re-watch it.

The Peralta fight. Even in Zaire when he didn't fully train he was winging and throwing a lot of hard punches. Foreman could stay behind the jab but when he unloaded he throw punches with mean like he was trying to kill the guy. You could say he fought a little stupidly. He wasted energy, and unloaded on guys but that's part of how he got so many early stoppages. Liston was more steady, a little more disciplined and calculated.

Let's be honest, though. Liston generally fought smaller men he was much superior to. However close there actually lung/cardio capacities where, I'd venture the mental aspect would be far more important. Liston is a tremendous fighter on paper. Foreman on the other hand is more of an overachiever if anything.

I'll admit if Foreman's mental edge is an advantage then Liston's advantage is his ability to keep relaxed. But that generally only applies when he's untested, and he won't be against Foreman.

 

Would that make Foreman massively more durable then since Liston was knocked out cold and stopped by one shot from Ali. If we're going be the simple track record.

 

Have you ever watched that fight?

Was Liston out cold?

Liston got up. What was the referee's count when he got up?

 

And

 

That's a different debate.

The debate at hand is whether or not George showed stamina problems during his prime. The answer is a provable and resounding yes.

Did a prime Sonny Liston (who fought MANY more rounds during his prime than GF) show stamina problems? The answer is no.

This is not an arguable point from any standpoint. You cannot say Foreman had any stamina advantage simply because history doesn't support that claim. The historical evidence supports the exact opposite.

 

Foreman had freaky awesome stamina, but Liston is the bigger man no matter what the 'numbers' might say. Foreman gassed out in a few fights (Peralta, Ali, Young) and Liston didn't but its only because Foreman threw punches man and liston sat back reading beat poetry and mastering the harpsichord. Its why Patterson has a better chin than Chuvalo, you know its all about style. Anyway liston was knocked out by a got named leotis which at the same age in which Foreman reinvented indoor grilling. Both have great pencil mustaches. Liston has a better nickname although Sonny isn't exactly the Human Eyeball, in terms of great sporting names. But Foreman in his prime lost only to Ali, possibly the greatest heavyweight of all time whereas liston lost to Cassius 'coitus interrupt-us' Clay who had showed a previous weakness to guys named Sonny. Listons inability to.capitalize this worry me. So it all comes down to: can Liston imitate '74 Ali better than Foreman can imitate '64 Clay. Foreman already has a gold medal and a huge ego, which is half the battle maybe more. All Liston has is the honor of being the first black Santa Claus. Plus Charles 'Sniffles' Shufford is better than Michael 'State Property 2: No defenses for you' Bent. I think I've made myself clear.

 

You mean getting your nose broken in round 1 against a murderous punching cleveland williams and coming back to knock him out doesn't qualify as resistance? I've seen fighters quit with broke noses(genaro hernandez, that 90s italian heavyweight)

What about fighting 6 rounds with a broken jaw against marty marshall? Victor Ortiz couldn't fight 1 round with a broken jaw.

 

I think liston does have better stamina, but is his jab solid enough to stop foreman walking through him?

 

:good

Facts, evidence, history and plain straight-up logic seem to completely leave the room whenever a George Foreman thread posts. I can't believe some of the stuff I read on them. No basis in reality whatsoever. It never ceases to amaze me. :-(

 

In my humble opinion, yes. If not then the straight right or murderous left hook that will follow it will.