Sonny Liston vs George Foreman. Prime for Prime?

Foreman's idiosyncratic musings lent HBO commentary some first-person colour and one of his frequent remarks was that a good jab can even "hurt ya back".

There is this unshakable scenario that plays out in Ted Spoons head of Foreman sternly, but somewhat uneasily, pawing his way into range against Sonny when that trusty jab shoots through the middle and makes the big Texan wince.

Most jabs would be eaten up during Foreman's early march, but Sonny has the physicality to go with that vertebrae-compressing left. You get the sense Liston would prefer the kind of fight Foreman would present; certainly history suggests he did better against lumberjacks than dancers.

Foreman's argument rests on a supposed greater ability to tough it out, but will he be able to create the holes in order for doubt to creep in? He was never one to make himself scarce in times of crises and his opponent isn't too shabby at putting-them-together.

There are a few sticky variables here, but if Liston enters the ring still curious what it's like to hold the heavyweight of the world then Foreman's chances are given a black eye.

 

My vote goes to Liston.I don't see any Foreman advantages except height,but Liston had longer reach.And some people says Foreman is stronger,I don't think so.Liston was in my opinion same strength or even stronger than Foreman.He had very big bones structure,his wrist and fist are largest in history of world heavyweights champions.

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Great post, as was zadfrak's and as I have said already, you have to pick Liston based on the styles.

Foreman was nails though. And I disagree he was in his prime against Lyle, he wasn't there mentally post-Ali. Watch him in the exhibition just before, all over the shop, couldn't even convincingly blast out journeymen as he was supposed to be, building up his aura.

We saw him demonstrate more durability as an old bloke. So for me it was always there, even if George was bounced around by Lyle and dropped by Jimmy f'n Young of all people!

A very, very short peak but yes, the Foreman of Norton and Frazier looked better than he had before and after IMO. As bad ass as Sonny was George was a bad mo'fo as well. I see his strength and power, both which I rate higher than Cleveland Williams', doing Sonny a thorough disservice. Foreman's punches were freakish. Yes, he just winged his shots but the power behind 'em was....clubbing in the most painful way imaginable. George's durability lasted longer too. Outside of being stopped by 'The Greatest' Liston showed he could be cracked as he got on. George took it 'til the very end, and shipped a lot of leather. Liston was probably down considerably less times in his career if you take George post-Ali/pre-return as he suffered a lot there. I'm just not sold on George being the less absorbant of the two, although I can also see a lot of posters don't think Sonny will ship much of George's slow, sloppy haymakers.

Liston's jab is longer, and better. George's is bloody good though.

Just a gut feeling. I like both immensely. If Liston won, I wouldn't be surprised. But this forum wants opinions and for once I'm going with one I can't really back up more than 'will hurt his opponent more than he gets hurt'. Again, good post :good

Those bringing up Peralta; last time George fought him was nigh on two years before he first smashed Frazier. That is a lot of growing for a young man, 21/22 whatever, to do. By my shoddy math and guesswork he was....24 when he beat Frazier?

Also, wasn't Peralta only stopped once, on cuts to a legend? Durable and experienced smaller quicker guy survives against power puncher, oh, my ****ing word I've never heard anything like it! Another guy who couldn't stop him, Ron Lyle. The only guy to stop Bobick in the amateurs before Stevenson (only had raw power) whose dig translated to the pro's, as we know.

 

Flea Man thinks talking in the third person makes you look a bit daft and lofty regardless of your reputation.

 

LittleRed agrees.

 

Underlining it reeks of pomposity.

Great f'n post though.

 

So someone tell me, when the first bell goes and George comes out looking to assert his authority, probably has the intention of pushing liston back and throwing a guys clubbing hook, what is sonny's response gonna be and how is he gonna assert his own authority.

 

If you hurt George like Liston would be able too Foreman won't come forward. If I remember correctly he never came forward at Frazier because he was scared of him but Frazier doesn't have reach and the jab, maybe the best we have seen

 

I think.he'd try to.force his own fight quickly, make it clear who the alpha dog is.

So when do you see liston hurting George?

 

If he came at Liston that would be the worse thing to do. Foreman won't come forward thats as good as suicide for him.

 

Why would it be suicide though?

 

Liston moved incredible for a big man. He's not a Frazier where Joe only had a few things on his mind;come forward no matter what,get him with the left hook but he's percieved as that I think when in fact his movement both offense and defense was exceptional and sitting behind his jab,which as you can see especially in the Whitehurt fight he gets whole body behind it. If Foreman is getting hurt why would George continue coming forward??

 

I agree, Liston threw shorter, more direct punches, had the edge in defence, a better jab, and knew when to go back and regroup. Foreman had a big edge in footwork but it would not be a factor here.
I 'll put my money on Sonny!

 

I may need to rewatch young George because I think the old's footwork rules my mind. He was more shoulder whirl but Sonny punched from the foot,could duck and swing at the body,launch in throw something missed he could step back just as fast.

 

Cos I've never seen George do anything but attack. Is liston the quicker man here?