who hit harder, marciano or tyson?

Tyson demonstrated more one punch ability in his later years than he did in his prime. His combination punching had deteriorated and he was forced to take guys out with single shots, which he did on numerous occasions. His speed in his prime was insane but it wasn't what made him such a devastating hitter. There was plenty of oomph behind his shots, and almost perfect textbook delivery.

I sometimes feel that people feel the need to downgrade or qualify Tyson's raw power because he displayed so many other qualities lacking in other top flight punchers. It was the speed that did it, or it was the combinations that did it, etc. Fact was Tyson displayed plenty of raw power in addition to those qualities. What sound evidence is there to the contrary?

When Tyson caught you flush you were either badly hurt/rocked or knocked down. Who are the fighters who stood up to his punch? Savarese? Botha? Etienne? Aside from Evander you have to go right to the tail end of Tyson's career before you begin to find fighters not getting badly affected by his power shots.

Tyson's raw power was easily the equal of any big hitter in history. He's proved that as much as anyone.

 

Tyson continued fighting much later than Rocky did and all he had in the end was his punch, his ability to take a shot and his old speed early on. He had no option but to throw single shots because he no longer had the pace to give away so much reach, beat the other guy to the punch, switch sides and attack from the blind side with both hands. Yes he could still flatten botha and golota but i dont think this is an example of raw power. He still had to time a punch and know when to pull the trigger.
Raw power is knocking a great fighter out with a less correct punch.

 

Then Shavers can't apply.

 

shavers does apply. He landed with damaging impact when ever he landed. Holmes said even sparring ernie would hurt him with odd punches with no real shoulder behind them. heavy hands.

Like i say if you get the job done who cares?

 

Shavers didn't get the job done, more often than not. When he did it was with flush, full body shots, not glancing blows.

 

Who would you say hit harder Tyson or Louis and why?

 

Shavers had approx. 90 fights.

But when you check whether he is a genuine KO'er or a cherry-picker then the following turns out:
If you exclude all opponents who have been KO'ed before
and all opponents who had a loss within 1 year of their encounter with Shavers (a typical thing for cherry-pickers)

it turns out that Shavers

KO'ed only 10 guys

of which 8 guys were bums (like Young Agabab 0-1 or Steve Carter 15-7)

and only 2 were somewhat good: Howard Smith (17-2) and Tony Perea (KO7) (16-1).



Also his KO ratio on opponents above 215 lbs is 47.8%, Joe Frazier and Larry Holmes only got a 2% lower KO ratio on 215lbs+ men, and those guys have faced better men than Shavers.

 

It is more a question of raw power and timed sharpness versus the "lights out" result of impact.

Both Tyson and Marciano could knock out great fighters. Tysons delivery was more schooled and required precision. Marciano just hurt all the time even with glancing blows. Marciano victims were unconscious for longer as well.

 

shavers is overrated but he did possess raw power. He might not have had the ability to KO great fighters in the way Foreman and Marciano did but he came pretty close and everyone who met him felt his unusual power. His power is note worthy in this discussion but obviously because he did not possess enough ability to surprise a great fighter as effectively wont change the fact he was a dangerous man to face for any level of fighter.

 

A true KO artist should have his fair share of list of knocked out iron chins or very good chins, if you don't have that list after 90 fights it's pretty strange.

I think it's fair to say Muhammad Ali was 10 times more capable with his power than Shavers was.

Shavers his punches might have "hurt" but if that hurt is only "ouch, it's like somebody is putting nails in my cheeks" and not "oh god the world is spinning around me" then that power is not "true" KO power.

I looked at Shavers his KO ratio with 215lbs+ men because

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every hw champ ever has a lot worse KO ratio on those men than he does on sub 200-215 lbs men.

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Prime Louis was possibly the most lethal heavyweight ever. It was all down to his superbe technique and cat like timing rather than raw power.

 

And who was a prime Joe Louis fighting again? A bunch of bums. So let us praise Louis for fighting for the most part a bunch of 180 pound bums.

Louis did throw his punches properly but again who was he fighting? Was he fighting guys like Foreman, Frazier,Tua, Holyfield, ect ect ect and knocing them out? No he was fighting the bum of the month club and knocking them out.

It is hilarious how you people always try to praise fighter from 60 year plus ago and act like they are better than modern fighter when they clearly aren't. Even a guy like Tony Thompson who is a joke would of ruled Joe Louis era.