if Cus D'Amato hadent died when he did.....

Most of Tyson's demons Were everyone tearing at him like Jaekels after Cus Died.

 

............Absolutely; let's not forget Tyson hadn't yet hit the pinnacle when Cus died. As mentioned here and by others, Tyson was excused by Cus for a hell of a lot of transgressions, transgressions that would have been blown up and fed upon by the press the more famous Tyson became. He already misbehaved under Cus' tutelage, so what in the world would lead one to believe he would toe the mark with him when the bright lights got hot? He'd have done exactly as he did anyway. Cus or no Cus. D'Amato was a very good trainer, but anyone who says Cus was able to control him is kidding themselves or hasn't done a lot of research.

 

Cus by himself would have found Tyson too much of a handful, eventually. However, with Jimmy Jacobs in tow, team Tyson could have kept the reigns on Iron Mike.
These were the two men who Tyson looked up to and respected above all others. Someone like King would not have had the influence over Tyson that he eventually did if Cus and Jacobs were around.

D'Amato died relatively early into Tyson's pro career, but Jacobs stayed around much longer than that and died in '88. Before his death, the lid was kept on Tyson for the most part.
It's only after Jacobs' death that things went to ****. The final nail in the coffin was when Rooney was sacked.

Having said that, Tyson was 37-0 before he met Douglas, and a world away from 50-0. I think that 50-0 would have been a bridge too far for Tyson, even if he had all three of the 'holy trinity' behind him.
However, there probably would have been no Tokyo and his legacy would have looked a damn side better than it does.

 

I do remember Frank Bruno making some interesting points about what he thought of Tyson's psychology and mind games in his book...I really must find it tonight and type them up here.

 

he was a tough kid but with cus he wasnt as volatile as king made him.

he was learning to be loved he never got that before. king just gave him ammunation to be angry.

mike was like a ming vase, when cus got he him he placed him on a pedestal for all to see and admire. he polished him, he adored him he did everything right to make him his own

when king got to him.he just picked him up and said "catch"

 

Tyson was extremely close to Cus & Jacos. Cus was like a father to Mike. I dunno how you guys are saying Mike would turn his back on them or run out of control. He was still developing not only as a fighter but as a person. Whether he would of hit rock bottom or not anyway, is up for debate, but no one can say for sure.

 

Even if D'Amato had kept his mind better in check, I'm sure at least Holyfield or Bowe or Lewis would've beaten him before he reached 50-0.

 

Agree on all accounts.

One example of something that Cus allowed Tyson to do while in his custody, was drop out of highschool in his second year. I don't know about anbody else, but if Cus was supposed to be a father type figure stearing him in life's better directions, this sure didn't look like it to me.

 

Ultimately, Cus was acting selfishly. He wanted another champion before he died and he obviously thought Tyson had the goods. Cus realised he didn't have a lot of time left.
A lot of stuff Mike did was swept under the table by D'Amato, or smoothed over.
In some ways he was a father figure and in some ways he was simply using Mike.

 

That's a superb post, as are some of your others in this thread. Instant clarity. With quality like this, your nick should be "The Highlander"

:smoke

 

Yes.

 

Sliim possibility.Because if Tyson had him, Cus would be getting way up in age, and not be able to keep up with Michael's burgeoning habits.Most likely, at some point, like fight 49, Mike loses.

 

Pretty much what i think.

Tyson was always going to **** up sooner or later and he would always end up in prison.

The question is could Cus help Tyson cement his legacy before he self destructed?

Cementing his legacy (IMO) meant beat Douglas, beat Holyfield and beat Foreman.

Bowe/Lewis would have been just icing on the cake.

 

No ****ing way does Holyfield beat a prime Tyson, NO WAY. I really dont know what some of you are on, are you haters? Cos a lot of you know your stuff but seem to be blind on this.

 

Explain why then. As both fought when both still had a bit about them. And Holyfield out-gutted and eventually outgunned Tyson in fight one, leaving a mental scar on Tyson, that Mike could not get over for fight two. I do not see how that would change if they had met like they were originally supposed to, in June 1990, and again in late 91...