if Cus D'Amato hadent died when he did.....

Tyson was not the same after prison. Holyfield, despite being past it was still active during that 91-95 period facing top notch opposition like Foreman, Holmes, Mercer, Bowe and Moorer. Realistically, what was a post prison rusty Mike Tyson going to show Holyfield that Holy hadnt already seen by then?

The words highlighted were missing from Tyson in 96, but you cant say those would have been missing in 91, going by Tysons fights with Ruddock.

I dont see Tyson looking to the ref for help in 91, being outgunned/outmuscled by a smaller Holyfield in 91 or gassing after 4 rounds like he did in 96.

 

would have went 100-0 and went down as the G.O.A.T

 

Tyson was been spun as being as good as ever going into the Holyfield. Evander was the one who had been blown out by Bowe, and was the 24/1 underdog.

Hindsight may of shown Holyfield still had something left, but Tyson was considered 'the man'. Holyfield, like Douglas upset seemingly the best Heavyweight on the Planet by the proverbial mile.

Using that hindsight, it would seem that Holyfield would of beaten Tyson in 90 and 91 on the balance of probabilities. But I would of picked Tyson to win at the time, and would of hardly been alone, and thus would of looked pretty silly post fight.

 

Mike would have been stayed undefeated for longer I am sure.

 

Apart from the first Holyfield fight and the Lewis fight, nearly all of Tysons post prison fights were a farce for one reason or the other. Tyson was spun as being good as ever because a) people forget that he was already began declining before prison, but due to the feeling of 'you never know what you have until its gone' when Tyson returned, nuthugging went into overdrive. Even moreso than before prison. b) People felt Tyson was 'back' because he 'destroyed' the likes of Mcneely (who was throwing Tyson all over the place), Mathis (who made Tyson look silly for a couple of rounds), Bruno (Who did nothing) and Seldon (who took a blatant dive), beating these guys meant Tyson was back.
Tyson boxed a total of 6 rounds in 5 years, whereas Holyfield had just been in a competitive loss with Riddick Bowe which lasted 8 rounds. it wasnt like Holyfield was destroyed, it was a competitive loss in which he dropped Bowe.

Same as above, Tyson was considered the man based on nothing but a couple of farcical Kos and old memories

The Tyson of 91 was totally different and superior in ever way to the Tyson of 96 and he had all the necessary ingredients to compete with and defeat Holyfield.

 

But where is the evidence for that?. Where is the fight that Tyson turned around a lost cause? Where was the fight that Tyson took his licks, and yet still managed to win? Where is the victories over the future 'greats' of the division?

Tyson was a young phenomenon. Someone with a make-up arguably not seen since a young Louis. But Louis backed up the phenomenal abilities, with the resume of a great, even when robbed of four years of his career.

There is evidence to show Holyfield can win fights that he was not favoured to do so. Holyfield can gut out a win, and win ugly. Holyfield can survive dodgy moments and comeback.

This would suggest that be it 1990, 1991 or 1996, Holyfield beats Tyson.

 

Actually that list you talk off is quite slim. Lennox never got up off the floor to win a fight. Ali never turned a fight round that he was losing, nor did Frazier, nor did Holyfield nor did Holmes. Tyson took plenty of licks in both Ruddock fights and in both fights he had to dig deep, something which was missing in 96.
Tyson didnt have to turn many fights round because the majority of the time he was in the lead, however he did turn the Botha fight round very effectively. The only fights he was behind on was Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis, Botha and Maybe Mathis. The rest of the fights he was winning on the scorecards including Williams and Mcbride.
Tyson never beat any future greats of the division? neither did Holyfield, nor did Holmes, nor did Ali, nor did Foreman. Only Lewis has the win over Vitali (depending on whether you classify Vitali as great)

Louis didnt have guys like Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis to deal with on his comeback.

The reason why Holyfields fights were more competitive than Tysons was that Holyfield didnt have the same punch power as Tyson. Holyfield was easier to brawl with, not many fighters were stupid enough to trade with Tyson, so they would rather run or get koed early. Alex Stewart is a great example of this. You rarely get fights were people trade with punchers, there are exceptions like Tyson/Ruddock, Foreman/Lyle, Tua/Ike.
The other reason is that Holyfield, despite being a small heavyweight still had the physical dimensions (reach etc) to make his fights competitive, Tyson on the other hand was a complete midget with very little reach. Even Holyfield towered over Tyson

 

Do you really believe that the pre prison Tyson (1991) was the same as the post prison Tyson (1996)?

 

Ali won fights against Norton, Shavers and Young, when well past his pomp, and when he was in grave danger of losing. Lewis avenged both his defeats, and sucked it up against both mercer and Vitali. Frazier had a winning war with Bonavena.

But what has this got to do with a Tyson/Holyfield fight in 90/91?

Holyfield beat Bowe and got a draw with Lewis. Ali beat Frazier, Liston, Foreman and Norton; Foreman beat Frazier...

But again What has this to do with a Holyfield/Tyson match up?

Tyson did not either, he beat Seldon and Bruno...

But that is not Holyfield's problem. Holyfield showed he could win fights he was not meant too. As you kind of suggest Tyson was always favoured to win, right up to Lewis, and yet he did lose, even when he showed some heart (Douglas and HolyfieldI).

The reality is the evidence we have got is that Holyfield beats Tyson...

 

Read the post of yours that i was replying to. Winning a fight past your prime is not the same as turning a fight around which you are losing, which is the post i was referring too.

Read the post of yours that i was replying to.

But he did fight Holyfield and Lewis, had he not fought them, his come back may have looked better

What fights was Tyson not meant to win? he was favoured majority of the time.
And if Holyfields fights were competitive and life and death, then thats not Tysons problem that he blew the majority of his opposition away.

 

Tyson was still buzzsawing through guys for a few years even after Cus passed away. He really only started to deteriorate as a fighter after firing Rooney and surrounding himself with Don King and a bunch of parasites. That was what blew his shot to be the Heavyweight GOAT. Cus was on borrowed time anyway, he wouldn't have lasted much longer than he did I don't think.

Getting rid of Rooney was the turning point of Tyson's career. It was downhill from there.

 

Tyson would be the first boxer to go 1001-0 and would still be champ today

 

No, but Cus Damato would have lived to a more advanced age.

 

Perhaps no one was less prepared for the spotlight they achieved than Mike Tyson. Regardless of who you are, it is impossible to function when surrounded by "Yes Men". As much as we hate to hear it, hearing "NO" occasionally is vital. Mix in Tyson's nightmarish formative years ....he didn't stand a chance. While I think Cus was a positive influence at the center Tyson was a damaged man child. Unfortunately, his downfall was unavoidable and perhaps a necessary part of his story.

 

It definitely helps Tyson a lot if Cus had lived. How much would be speculating, but it would have helped for sure.