Holmes hit harder than Ali but it was marginal. He didnt have the type of power to deter Joe Frazier from getting inside. Yes he could stun Joe but Frazier is going to establish that forward momentum more often than not. Holmes is going to be giving ground and taking punishment on the inside by the mid rounds.
Behind to Mathis is a myth ... he controlled the pace of the fight after the third round .. as ar as down early to Ellis , come on ... a razor close first two rounds and then he destroyed Jimmy ... I am a huge Homes fan but see this a a very tough match up for Larry ..
Agree with this, assuming we are talking primes for both men. Frazier does get inside and breaks Larry down by attrition. In a battle of primes, I like Frazier on a late tko.
What's interesting is you're right. Larry has more of a pop and a bit more maybe to deter Frazier. However, can Larry take it once Frazier gets at the optimal range? Does he have the toughness, grit, and willpower of Ali? If it's a prime versus prime fight I'd pick Frazier because I think Frazier has more of the needed toughness. He may get hurt, even staggered a little bit (Although the punch that seemed to hurt Frazier the most in his prime was an unorthodox double left hook/uppercut from Ali in round 9 of the FOTC). Larry doesn't exactly throw like that. He has a great uppercut, but he throws it on the inside. Ali basically threw a double left hookercut at range against the greatest left hooker in HW history. Unorthodox and ballsy. So they present difficult threats and challenges. I'd say peak versus peak I'd take Frazier to edge a decision. I'm 60/40 in terms of the odds.
Another punch that holmes didn't have is a lead right hand, that ali used to great effect in his fights with frazier. Joe was the perfect fighting machine to fight boxers. Holmes might have had more sting in his jab but alis had more variation and could change its direction up and down, holmes was a straight jab, alis would have been more effective against frazier. I'd have to go with a late stoppage or points decision for frazier
Prime for prime I'd have to go with a Joe Frazier UD. A battered, way down on workrate Holmes battles bravely at the end, but lost it down the stretch in the last third. Frazier is never the same again after this match, fighting down to his depleting reserves and then fighting some more. Watch Joe push in against that legendary, punishing jab, and watch a truly possessed man.
Holmes wins. He can do what Ali did in 1971, but does better on the inside. While Holmes never moved as much Ali, he could get on his toes and move when need be.
On the inside larry would have to use the uppercut leaving himself vulnerable to the left hook, I know larry recovered from that thunderous punch from shavers, but if earnie was a good finisher larry would have been out. Could larry weather the storm that joe could bring?
He's got heeeaaaaarrtttttttt all you really need is heeeeeaaaaarrrrtttt when the odds are saying you'll never win, thats when the grin should starrt!
Prime for prime, I favor Holmes, but only very, very slightly. I think it's very close to a 50-50 fight. Holmes does have the additional sting on his punches over Ali that would make it more difficult for Joe to shrug off, and he doesn't leave himself as open to counter left hooks as Ali does with the uppercut, for example. On the other hand, Joe on his best nights was a tank in the ring, and if he could consistently get inside he could really start working Holmes over and accumulating damage, especially to the body, which might swing a fight towards Joe's way down the stretch. That's prime for prime, though. Towards the end of Joe's career, especially after Manilla, he would have been picked apart by even a green Larry Holmes.