Which Fabulous 4 member had the greatest victory?

look at the poll there is your answer.

 

I think people thinking Duran over Ray in the first fight was the best win shows a lack of understanding of boxing and when a fighter is great and when a fighter is not. Logically the best win of all is Leonard over Hagler, regardless of Hagler being inactive. Marvin was an establish great who had not lost in 9 years, and had 11 or so title defenses. Ray comes out of retirement and outboxes him in a physical fight at times.
Duran over Ray was Duran using experience and tactic to make Duran fight his fight, but Ray's inexperience and lack of big fights hurt him. The fact Ray beat Duran so easily two times after that, takes away from the first fight.

 

The fact that Hagler's victory over Hearns gets 3 votes shows how accurate this poll is . That was probably the best effort of any of the fab 4. Marvin had to change his style to get that win, and take big right hands to do it.

 

If we look at Ray's tactics it is not as great a win as it looks obvioulsy, but for a guy to come out of retirement for 5 years (regardless of Kevin Howard) and beat the Undisputed Middleweight Champion of 7 years was impressive and the best win just on that. Ray would not fight Hagler after the Hearns fight, but after he looked sluggish for Mugabi, Ray comes out of retirement and wants everything in his favor. Hagler thought he was going to easily beat Ray, and Ray was really nice in the press conferences which really made Hagler get out of his fighting mode and all that. But these little things of getting small advantages is what Ray learned from Duran in 1980. He learned how making guys fight his fight and using small little psychological things worked in his favor. He even made friends with Hagler to catch him off guard. i see all that, and we can give Duran credit for teaching Ray how to fight his fight and make fighters not fight theirs. And he also learned from the Hearns/Hagler fight not to get Hagler mad. Hearns called Hagler midget and he was going to knock his head all over the ring. It was the wrong move with Marvin, who is very sensitive to insults. Marvin really is not as tough minded as he seemed. Ray picked up on those things.

 

Leonard's win over Hagler was the greatest victory because he was such an overwhelming underdog. Nobody thought he could win. He had one fight in 5 years, and it was his first fight at the weight.

Pretty simply way to sum things up. The above wasn't done with smoke and mirrors by myself. Honestly.

I actually prefer Hagler as a fighter than Leonard. Leonard was a little con merchant. :good

 

nice list. The poll doesn't make much sense. I agree, Hagler over Hearns was probably the greatest win and it was the greatest fight in someways as far as explosiveness. There are so many great wins. Hearns over Duran was so complete that it does rank high, but Ray over Hagler and Ray over Hearns are always good.

 

Hagler's win over Hearns is one of the most explosive fights ever, and a masterful win by Hagler. But the thread asks "Which victory was the greatest", and with that in mind I voted Leonard vs Hagler.

 

I kind of agree. And I love Marvin and think he was great. What bothers me about Marvin Hagler in regards to Leonard, is that he sees Ray as a con artist now, but before the fight he bought the fact they were friends and all that so he went in to outbo Ray or something. It baffles me that he didn't think Ray wanted to win? He didn't know Ray was like that? Hearns always acted nice to Ray until fighttime, then Tommy said we are not friends until after the fight. It was obvious when Ray said in interviews how close he and Marvin were as friends, that is was sort of bs. He even walked up to Hagler at one of the press conferences and said "now i will go over and thank Marvin, and he walked over and tried to shake hands but Marvin ignored his hand. I think after the loss Marvin was mad because all of a sudden he realized what didn't before the fight, that Ray used everything he could for an advantage and Marvin lost his titles and some of his legacy for it. He is mad at himself and at Ray for fooling him. But he has himself to blame for putting his guard down and coming into the fight as a right hander, which I think happened a little because of Ray's little games. Had Marvin put him in focus like he did for Hearns, it would have been totally different.

 

In Leonards autobiography "Sugar Ray Leonard - The Big Fight", he says of the first Duran fight >>>

"I needed to accept the simple fact that Roberto Duran, at least on that night, was the better man. He cut off the ring and used his expertise to outmuscle and outwit me. His heart was every bit as impressive as his hands. I deserved credit as well. By standing my ground for 15 rounds I showed my critics resilience that they didn't think was in me."

 

I agree. He didn't beat him convincingly. I remember during that fight most people thought Marvin would just destroy him. I thought so also, so when you say Ray surviving and even during little smirks and taunts at Marvin, it did make it look more like Ray was winning the rounds than he was. Although Marvin fought a bad fight and looked really rusty, he could have edged that fight. I read somewhere how Ray and Marvin met at Ray's restaurant after Hagler beat Mugabi, and Ray said Marvin was complaining about the punches hurting more and that he wanted to retire, and that is when Ray thought more about fighting him. Ray admits he used all those little things to beat Marvin. And the boxing people still give Ray credit, which shows that even when a fighter is diminished, if another fighter beats him he gets the credit.
And that is why JMM will always get credit for beating Pacman and no one will forget that knockout. That is why I don't think Pacman should fight JMM again. Nothing will equal what JMM did to him in a way, so if Pacman can say he has 2 wins over JMM, then he has somewhat of an edge. If Pacman can somehow knockout JMM with one punch, that would equal it, but that is hard to see happen. I went off topic.