Solimans b sample to opened today

Interesting take.

Thermogenesis is the process of heat production in organisms. Shivering is a thermogenic process. Your selective use of scientific terms is exactly what the manufacturers of this and other products also do and thus mislead the consumer.:nono

If the manufacturer is claiming that there are stimulants in the product that cause an accelerated thermogenic process then by law they are obliged to list that product and its concentrations. The ingredients list you provided has none of that and no doubt would be tendered in evidence.

Berocca is also a stimulant yet have a look at its label - detailed down to the nth degree.

 

Tc u just got fckin KTFO...

 

Actually it is in Piras example.
If the label claims something which is 100% false, you have a strong case.

End users don't have an easy means of testing product, hence, labels must be accurate.

 

That's a daily occurrence around here.

 

Im pretty sure you know what Theromgenic means when its applied to a supplment. The manafacture doesnt have to list the concentrations if its a proprietary blend, which has already been stated by another posts on this thread. Why did you make up that they have to list concentrations? none of the companys that sell supps with proprietary blends list the concentration levels, if they did then they wouldnt be protecting their proprietary blend , other companys would know the concentration levels and with a slight alteration they would copy the same product. atsch

Have you looked up all of the substances in Black Bombs to ensure that nothing is a theromgenic? Do you know what substances are a thermogenic? it appears you do not as you think its a process that doesnt apply to supplments

 

Its hear say, no one even knows this is what he actually took. And where is the labels on scooners? there is none lol.. so does that mean you can drink as much as you want because there is no labels that show the accurate concentration of said scooners?

 

Did you know that Geranium extract is also banned in Australia? u might know its name as dimethylamylamine or DMAA

 

Naturally, this is what I've been saying all along, and until something is proven, it's all hearsay.

However, Piras point still stands.

Ask the barman for the label next time you're at the pub, I'm sure he'll show you.

 

Yes if objectiv and serious news say a forbidden Substance was found in the blood, you know the results can be seen by the public.atsch
Fact is a forbidden substance was found! But yeah belive want you want.

 

I know exactly what companies are doing when they bandy about terms such as "thermogenic reaction", "scientifically studied stimulant extracts" - they are using selective science - and you are arging right down this line.

Many of these companies indulge in selective science and make wild claims, state they have tested by all and sundry, used by the pros and then immediately start qualifying these claims. Reading through "Black Bombs" it's the usual claims that have been going around since Joe Weider and all the typical claims made in the biz.

Regards your take on commercially confidential information not being disclosed on labels - take a look at any health product or drug prescription. Sure Coke can get away with a secret formula but when you claim as a company that your product contains no drugs or banned stimulants then it is proven it does then what happens? Ever heard of the Pan scandal right in our backyard? Substitution of medicinal ingredients? Please tell us what happened to this company. :deal

Use selective science, deceptive termiology and exaggerations all you like Ty but I will kick your arse with science in the end.

 

:yep

You have the right take - the label details no stimulant or drug concentrations and the advertising material directly states that it has been scientifically tested and used by pros thus inferring it is a legal product which directly influenced the purchaser via false claims and opening the door for any plantiff to claim damages.

As clear a case as I have ever seen - not even Juia Gillard of Slater 'n Gordon could **** that up.

 

Yep - except Black Bombs claims to have Geranium - not Geranium Extract.


World of difference. A useful article below touching on unscrupulous manufacturers.



If you are buying a pre workout supp (particularly one made in the U.S) it is likely that it contains dmaa as an active ingredient.
Due to the expense of dmaa it is usually combined with caffeine, however the benefit is that these two really do complement each other, as they have slightly different properties.

1,3-dimethylamylamine (dmaa) works by mimicking norepinephrine in the body. This means that it acts in a very similar way to caffeine with users feeling a boost in energy and focus. The largest benefit to dmaa is that due its different action, it seems to bring about most of the positives effects of caffeine without the negative side effects.
Funnily enough, it was originally developed as a nasal decongestant, until people obviously realised the stimulant qualities meant it had many other uses.

So, what about geranium?
Geranium Extract (which is extracted from the geranium plant) is where dmaa occurs naturally. Just like the tribulus plant has test boosting qualities, parts of the geranium plant have stimulant qualities – as it contains dmaa.
By refining the plant (which is done by using solvents to extract the active ingredient), producers can come up with a product, which is highly concentrated in dmaa. We commonly refer to this as gernaium extract.

One issues with extracts is that they come in a variety of strengths (depending on how they have been extracted, amount of solvents and so on) and to make matters worse, the part of the plant which is used, the time in which it is harvested and so on, all can affect the actually quantity of the active ingredient. Due to this, it is VERY difficult to determine the extract strength of compound, unless an analysis is done each time.

Typically though, 200-1 geranium extract is said to contain about 15 – 20% geranium which would mean 100 – 150mg is required to get 25mg (which is considered an active dose) of dmaa.

Given these inconsistencies it is no surprise that pure dmaa has become more popular as it has become available. Though it is more expensive dose per dose, synthetic dmaa does mean you can be much more certain about dosage, you are dealing with a pure powder made in a laboratory.

The problems here started when resellers started interchanging the names. I have spoke to a few people who have wondered why our geranium extract is brown not pure white. Of course, being a plant extract it will always be a brown/green colour (and likely smell like geranium flowers!) however if people have previously bought a pure white powder that was labelled as dmaa, they become very confused.

Geranium extract should always look like a typical plant extract (brown/green and smelly) where as pure dmaa should always be an off white powder which has tendencies to clump.

In terms of which is better. Well, the only real benefit of geranium is that it is the “natural” product. While it is debatable how natural a plant refined with solvents is, this does give some people peace of mine. As geranium isn’t pure dmaa it does make dosing a little easier as 100 – 150mg is quite a bit easier to measure than 25mg (which is a typical pure dmaa serve)

Pure DMAA is therefore the better choice for most people, but if you do purchase it be very careful with dosing as 25mg (1/40th of a gram) is a very small dose, one that requires very sensitive scales.

 

So your saying that Thermogenic supplments do nothing for you? Why dont you try one and then tell me they dont do jack sht lol. Im guessing you dont belive in stimulants either hey?


Why has soliman taken this product knowing that it contained other banned substances?

 

Its the bloody same thing derka lol

 

Geranium (or more specifically the chemicals 1,3 dimethylamylamine/dimethylpentlyamine that are found in it) is the strongest legal stimulant ingredient available in supplements. As it is chemically very similar to ephedrine, it probably increases metabolism and decreases hunger significantly when it is combined with caffeine. It also likely increases performance to some degree - although neither of these effects has been proven yet.

People who have any kind of blood pressure, heart or anxiety conditions or have a family history of heart disease or stroke, or those who are sensitive to stimulants like caffeine probably should stay clear geranium-containing products. For others it is probably relatively safe.

It can also be a vasoconstricter (it narrows blood vessels) so if you use it in a pre-workout product, ensure that the product contains a vasodilator ingredient like: citrulline, cocoa extract, grape extract, arginine, carnitine, etc to counter the vasoconstrictive effect.

Geranium gives a very powerful kick which increases intensity and focus during exercise.

If you have even the slightest doubt, consult with your doctor before trying geranium (although most doctors won't have any knowledge of geranium's stimulant effects).

Mark Gilbert
Nutritionist and Supplement Specialist