Prime Joe Calzaghe vs Prime Andre Ward @ 168

Well Serge, my apologies as well for my rudeness.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.. I won't go into why you think Roy was roided up all the time or how many all time great fighters we recognize that possibly were that didn't get tested.. The fact was though, he was truly a special fighter, with or without steroids.. Look at how many of his opponents also tested positive and didn't look anything like Roy. I am not saying it is right, steroids are wrong for sure, but I am not going to dismiss what he has done for one bad test in a sport that his been riddled with PED's with little testing for decades.

I am sorry that you got that I hate Joe, because really I don't.. I think Calzaghe was a great fighter in his own right.. He had great skills, I don't agree with all of his career choices but I don't agree with all of Roy's as well. Both men at times could have pushed more to give fans great fights and cared less about the risk/reward, but that is boxing... Some of the negative things I say on here is when I was wound up or provoked by someone, I am only human. I don't have an agenda against Joe though. I do believe pre HW Roy stylistically was all wrong for Joe though, and when I say Roy would have beaten him convincingly, I do mean it.

Anyway, you seem like a good poster with intelligence that can be a fan and still be realistic about their fighter. Which is what I try to be about Jones..

 

Again Calzaghe was not bloated for either of his fights at 175, he even said himself it was one of the easiest camps as it was getting harder for him to make 168.

 

Ward might actually stop Slappy.

 

those are disgraceful stoppages.....

 

Ward ****s him up.

 

No he wouldn't, Ward doesn't have the power.

The only top level fighters he's stopped are Kessler via cuts caused by headbutts and a weight-drained Dawson. He'd never be able to bully and disrupt Calzaghe like he could Kessler - Hopkins failed and he's better at that kind of thing than Ward is - and they'd be fighting at weight Calzaghe was more than comfortable in so there would be no issues there.

Calzaghe also had a very strong chin and excellent recover power and wasn't prone to cuts, all of which makes the prospects of anyone stopping him very poor. I dont object to the notion that Ward could win on points if he performed well enough but there is very little chance that he'd stop Calzaghe.

 

Serge,

You have some good points about Calzaghe vs. Jones in their primes.. I guess I never gave it much thought that Joe would back off and play it smart had he been hurt, every time I have seen him hurt at all he has got up and went right after his opponent, which shows a lot about the fighter he is, but there is always a time to be smart and make sure you are recovered against a guy like Jones.

I agree that no fighter in history has an easy time with prime Calzaghe or prime Jones at 168 or below, they also give many LHW fighters hell as well. I actually picked Calzaghe on the poll to win a split dec vs Ward had they met. I do think Joe's skills get underrated by some people on here, I have read some pretty pathetic stuff, but I don't buy into it, you can't achieve what he did without elite ability and skills... I do wish he had been exposed to the American public earlier on though, I would have liked to follow his early career as I did with Jones and other elite fighters of the generation.

Despite what I said above, I do like reading your posts. You should post more, I am always down for a good debate with an educated poster.:good

 

Doesn't have the power? He KO's Bad Chad and he does not have the power? Let me guess, according to you, Chad was weight drained.... GTFO. Ward demolishes Joe, and Calzaghe was a good fighter.

 

Hopkins better being 40+? Listen Bernard is a legend, but let's be real about who he's faced and beat while he was old. There is a really good ****ing reason why Hopkins wants absolutely nothing to do with Ward, yet was willing to fight (and knock down) Joe Calzaghe. Please, just stop.

 

Hopkins is better at spoiling and disrupting his opponent than Ward is. It is pretty much what he does, its something he has refined into a fine art and has allowed him to continue at the top level for many, many years beyond his prime.

Notice the underlined bit.

Notice the fact that I did not say "Hopkins is better than Ward" but "Hopkins is better than Ward at bullying and disrupting his opponents".

Ward doesn't use that method as his main weapon, Hopkins does, Hopkins is specialized in that field, Ward isn't.

So dont act as if I was saying Ward isn't better than Hopkins post-2005-to-present, because I said nothing of the sort. All I said was that Hopkins is better at implementing a certain method of fighting than Ward is, not that he's a better fighter.

 

I clearly said in that post "a weight-drained Dawson". And he was weight-drained, it was clear for anyone to see. Dawson only has himself to blame for agreeing to take the fight in a weight he couldn't handle, but that doesn't change the fact that because of that Ward did not beat Dawson at Dawson's best.

 

Serge you ****in idot , your extreme lenghtly moaning and crying sickens me to my core
.... you dont understand why Joe gets the hate he does? Its because of clowns like you and Bailey making endless excuses for him when he coasted and played it safe throughout his whole career.
He wasn't after hard fights, remember that, you dumb *****?
Its because Joe's biggest nuthugger on here makes idiotic mindless threads about how all roads lead to super Joe , how he would beat every SMW and LH in history and how the bums he fought were great wins and worthy opponents.
Nobody gives a **** if he had sore hands , thats his own problem. He landed 100's of power shots on Jones without even wincing . Why should anybody care about fools like you constantly moaning about his hands.
You made a proper **** out of yourself when you claimed Roys talent was enhanced by roids . He displayed that natural athletic talent in the olympics when he was robbed of gold. Was he juiced up back then too?
People can talk **** about Joe all they want, he's not the only fighter who gets put down on here. You take offence to people who are not fans of your boy to heights ive never seen from anybody else.

 

I'll give Baley his due, he puts up a big case for The SMW division of the Calzaghe era and how other big names didn't get a belt there, not entirely convinced that lack of star names and legacy of the division isn't a big reason some fighters bypassed it. Calz beat a lot of good super middleweights, in a Euro dominated division. I don't think you could pick anyone at the time to beat hm although he did take so,e shocking fights. But Bailey, I really don't see how you can defend the RJJ fight, I'm a Calzaghe fan but it was a cop out of a retirement fight, when he had Pavlik/Dawson available, young hungry undefeated champs. Roy's best years were left in the 90s and he lost something moving up to HW, his reflexes were never the same which is why he got caught so often after. I can't give him any credit for it, just like I don't give Green/Bhop/Lebedev any credit. Roy was a complete shell and at least 8 yers removed from his best. Calzaghe was older too, but was arguably in his best form and hadn't noticebly deteriorated.

Calz and Roy's resumes are quite similar, they both beat a few great fighters, then they beat a lot of good fighters whom other contenders which people claimed they ducked either struggled with or lost too (e.g McCallum, Malinga and Reggie Johnson all did numbers on our best middleweights/SMW but Roy handled them easily, he made light work of Gonzales who beat Dariusz who was considered a big threat), likewise Joe beat Brewer/Lacy/Veit/Mitchell and Sheika who all did numbers on other good contenders and future champions.

 

Well said Pal.:good

Though I don't hold it against Calzaghe for fighting Roy.. There is nothing wrong with cashing out against a legend, but call it for what it is.