Y did Duran try 2 box Hearns rather than swarm / attack him ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by frankenfrank, Apr 22, 2013.


  1. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    There is also the picture with Hagler who is near 5-10 where Duran looks nearly his height. That 164 weight was what Ray thought would drain Tommy, since Ray was on his power kick to weaken everyone and win titles along the way with big advantages (after Hagler)-but Tommy came in at 162 1/2 and easily would have made 160. That fooled Ray a little,as did Tommy's performance. Tommy was being a little lazy fighting at 168 and 175 since he didn't have to lose as much to get there, but he didn't have trouble making 160. I think he wanted to make history and do something the other guys who were great whom he fought Duran,Benitez,Leonard,Hagler could not do. They never could beat Virgil Hill.
    But a weight problem at 168 in 1989? Thomas fought at 154 as late as June of 1986, so a little over two years later after making 147 some years before, he couldn't make 160?? When he fought Olajide in April of 1990 he looked rather soft at 168. I think Tommy always wanted to fight at light heavyweight and make that his home. That doesn't mean he was comfortable there, he spoke about that as early as 1981. He figured if the Leonard or Duran rubber and rematches or the Hagler rematch was not there, he would go up to fight Virgil Hill and make a different kind of history and he did. Evidence of that is when Ray fought Norris in 1991, Tommy fought Hill months later. Actually Ray fought Norris on Feb. 9, 1991 on a Sat. Tommy fought on Monday Feb. 11, 1991 at the Forum in Los Angeles against a Light heavyweight named Kemper Morton. I was at that fight since I lived in California at the time. I think Tommy fighting Virgil Hill is similar to Michael Spinks moving up to fight Holmes in 1985. It was an opportunity.

    I agree about Ray and the catchweights. By the way Hearns was the first champion at welterweight to move up and beat the light heavyweight champion. He did it two times.
     
  2. frankenfrank

    frankenfrank Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hagler was a little midget like Duran was only a more massive midget.
    ((Hagler = Duran < Dany Lopez) & (Hagler < Minter (5'8")) ) => Hagler was a little midget around 5'6" himself .

    Trust Leonard and Mirena (if he was still his trainer by that time) that Hearns was dead @ 164 , and he made 162.5 4d same reasons Toney made 167 vs Jones , because he got drained so much that his brain did not notice that he is even draining in excess .
    4 his superior longevity and 4 fighting opponents @ w8s where they felt com4table I have 2 rank Hearns higher than Leonard both in terms of h2h & p4p .
    Leonard only seemingly outdid Hearns vs Hagler & Benitez but Hearns actually outdid Leonard vs Duran and beat him in de rematch 4 what it was worth by then .

    I watched Hearns vs Barkley (both fights) and Hill and I do not remember him looking soft vs neither , admittedly it was quite long ago and I still have not watched him vs Olajide @ 168 .

    Leonard & Hagler could not do what Hearns did (vs Hill) 4 mainly 2 reaons :
    1) they were older
    2) they were smaller

    and Leonard was a drain your man princess way b4 Hagler : he benefited from it vs Hearns (#1) , Duran (#2) , Kalule , Benitez and I could dig another 1 if I'd bother still from pre 1987 .
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :deal
     
  4. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm 5 foot 6, This is me and Duran.
     
  5. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I believe it was Manny Steward`s game plan that threw Duran off. I think Duran expected Hearns to come out boxing and moving. Instead he came out aggressive and was backing Duran up.

    Hearns didn't allow Duran to establish any forward momentum and gain any confidence. Tommy Hearns executed the plan to perfection. Duran lost other fights and fought other great punchers but nobody ever came close to doing that to him.
     
  6. DigMona

    DigMona Member Full Member

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    Duran fought Hearns fight. Meaningless win for Tommy.
     
  7. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is where you double standards shows it's true colors. The fight with tommy was almost 14 years into Duran's career. You accept the tommy loss being around the same time period of tommy career as his excuse but don't do the same for Duran. You just can't seem to grasp the basic facts that Duran was WELL past his best weight and welll past his prime when Tommy beat him... **** he was even well into his career when Hagler and SRL beat him. Why is so difficult to understand about somebody being well past their best weight and well into their career.. yet taking on guys AT THEIR BEST WEIGHT IN THE PRIME OF THEIR CAREER? That isn't something to gloss over and easily dismiss.. it's a very real and important factor. The difference between TOmmy and Duran though.. was that Duran had an even better excuse.. He was fighting ATG's and losing to them while they were prime and in their prime weight... Hearns got sparked by Iran Barkley.. Yes Iran Barkley... Somebody Duran beat even further into his career. There is no getting around these valid points MAG... and the more you try.. the worse you look.
     
  8. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree with all of this.
     
  9. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Agreed. Duran even beat the Barkley that Hearns couldn't in two attempts, proving that if Duran fought his own fight, he'd have beaten Tommy.
     
  10. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    B.S. As much as Duran's overrated. The name of the game is to get the other guy to fight your fight. Impose your will on him or get to his ego before the fight. Duran was able to get Leonard to fight his fight. Leonard was of course a lot better at fighting Duran's fight than Duran was at fighting Hearn's fight.
     
  11. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    What is interesting about your post is you are saying Duran had the better excuse. That is what I mean about Duran and excuses. Looking for the best excuse. But he lacks the wins. Excuses do not equal wins, they are attempts to diminish a loss. And building Barkley's win to more than it is, shows how great people think Hearns was. The guy who beat Hearns is Duran's best win or proves he was great? Barkley is rather insignificant unless Hearns is discussed. He is not a great fighter because he never strung together a great win or even a good win or two in a row. Beating Hearns is his claim to fame, but Duran never beat Hearns when Tommy was younger when they were both champions at 154 and legends. That isn't something which can be glossed over or dismissed at all as you say. Many of the posters for Duran want to somehow act like Hearns vs. Duran did not happen, but that fight cannot be erased because of the great knockout which was provided. Tommy made sure that it was going to be remembered. People forget the Wilfred fight because there was not that great a clip of the win. But the win was just as significant.

    Honestly, aside for Leonard, which was Ray fighting Duran's fight when Ray still was not a superfighter, what are Duran's other great wins? Now I say this because people actually say that is one of the best wins ever, without putting into context that in June of 1980, Ray was not one of the best fighters who ever fought. That early in his first reign? no.
    Regardless of weight and what you say he was past his prime, where in his lightweight career did Roberto beat someone of the Benitez,Hearns,Leonard,Hagler category? Esteban and Buchanan cannot be considered in that class just because people say they are. They weren't. Roberto was dominant, until he fought guys who were fast, and then he has an excuse. He fought at 154 before Ray,Hearns or Benitez ever fought at 154 as early as 1978. So this era he beat Ray would have to be the most significant, and in that era he lost to all of them. I have stated before, he never knocked out a great fighter. If you can say Dejesus is an ATG then he did, but Dejesus is not ATG.
    This is how Duran fans are confusing. They say he was washed up and above his weight when he fought Benitez,Hearns and Leonard 2, but somehow 5 years after Hearns, Duran beating Barkley is a great win and proves his greatness because Barkley beat Hearns. Yet no one considered Barkley are great fighters and they can't. He lost to Kalambay,Benn, Nunn in the same time he beat Hearns. What gets Hearns around Barkley? Beating Cuevas for a title. Benitez for a title, Duran at he same weight Duran had a title, and beating undefeated Virgil Hill at light heavyweight to win his second title at 175. Now remember, regardless of losses, I do think Hearns wins speak volumes for him.
     
  12. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    Hagler is 5-9 1/2. Leonard is 5-10. They are practically the same size. 5-6? no not close. Duran was not this little guy, but if benefits his fans to say he was old and small so he gets the excuse why he lost to Benitez,Hearns or Leonard when he fought at 154 before any of them did in 1978.
    Hearns did not look in great shape against Barkley 2. He looked good in fight one. And remember, had Barkley not landed that punch in round 3, Hearns was absolutely going to stop him in round 4. Not many guys came close to that.
    Leonard and Hagler would not beat Hill because Tommy was taller and could compete with Virgil at a top level, but Tommy still was not a legit light heavyweight. He was moving around weights for almost every fight, which shows how great a win that was for a guy who was once a welterweight could move around in weights and fight Virgil and win a UD.
     
  13. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    Even Duran fighting his own fight could not have beaten Hearns. When Duran tried to fight his fight Tommy countered him and landed clean and stopped him. Duran had no chance vs. Hearns, and this would have been the case at 147 and 154 and 160. I give Duran the best chance to beat Hearns in 1989 or 1990 when they almost had a fight. Tommy was brawling more then and fighting wilder fights, but earlier Tommy would always use his jab and land his crisp punches. Regardless even in 1990 I think Tommy stops Duran by TKO about 7 or 8.
     
  14. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    Roberto has great fans. I hope I am as good a Hearns fan as they are Duran fans. The Hearns/Duran fight cannot be ignored. Tommy scored such a great knockout that it is always mentioned as one of the best and dominant knockouts ever from one great fighter over another. That fight has been on the boxing publics subconscious for almost 30 years. When Pacman was stopped by JMM in Dec. that is the comment people made that night, does it compare to Hearns/Duran. It did, but Hearns/Duran was not a one punch knockout, it was a oneside fighter where Tommy landed a will and the last punch was so great it was conclusive, but Roberto was wobbling back and Tommy did his jab to the body and came upstairs to the head. Duran fans would have wanted to sweep this loss by Duran under the rug like they did with Benitez, but they never could. Hearns was bigger than Benitez after that fight, and his stature made it so that it was always part of his fighting filmclip.

    I don't blame Roberto for losing to Hearns at all, Tommy lost some fights also, I think his fans dismissing Hearns win saying Duran was out of shape is not fair to Tommy since the guys who beat Tommy all got credit for beating him, and Hagler beat Tommy when Tommy was moving up in weight. Roberto was a champion at 154 in the WBA when Tommy beat him. Roberto fought at the weight for almost 6 years at the time and before Hearns ever did. Hearns was WBC champion. Duran did not just come up from lightweight and fight Hearns. This should have been a unification had they not stripped Duran for not fighting McCallum
     
  15. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    This proves it. Duran looks about 5'8". And that is exactly what he was.