Joe Frazier P4P Vs Roy Jones at HW, If Jr. had the balls to even fight at HW!?...

"Ruiz, however, would receive another shot before 2003 was out. As champion Jones was required to face the WBA's number one contender, former WBO champion Vitali Klitschko. Neither the Jones nor the Klitschko camps were able to agree to a fight by an imposed deadline, so Jones became a champion-in-recess. Klitschko, however, did not want to fight the #2 contender, former WBC, IBF, and lineal champion Hasim Rahman, for the interim championship. After David Tua, the #3 contender, also turned down the fight against Rahman; Ruiz, the #5 contender and the only one interested in the fight, decided to accept. He fought Rahman on December 13, 2003, and with a unanimous decision victory became the WBA's interim champion."

Vitali ducked Rahman and retired so he didn't have to face him.
Tua wanted no part either.
Then Ruiz took the man and won.

Sure he fought ugly and boring but he was extremely effective and would have been a good win for anyone in any era.

 

Ok I could have worded it differently, but I knew damn well RJ had fought at HW ( hince the opening thread) and im not really lookin to debate over Weight or class, really just who would win at around 200, 205 lbs....But yes ill give it to you I should have asked the question better, or worded it differently I didnt mean for it to come off like like I didnt know RJ and Ruiz fought at HW but had he stayed a HW for a while could he had made history or beaten outa the division by the elite and back then there was just a little more than a handful of really good HW's that could have beaten Roy at that time. Lewis, Holy and Tyson destroy him for sure...In my opinion.

 

And I assume the 2 brothers would have never fought!?

 

Ruiz KO10 Frazier in a slobberknocker.

 

Your saying Ruiz would beat Joe!?...Not just beat him but knock him out..?:rofl

 

Fair enough mate. I just read it as though you were attacking Roy, right from the start.

I respect your opinion, but I don't think any of those guys would have destroyed Roy at THAT point.

Evander in 2003, was still a force, but he was way past his absolute best. Toney beat him, and although styles make fights, I think Roy's speed would have caused him all sorts of problems. I think Roy would have beaten him on points.

Tyson at his peak, fully motivated, and fighting to his full capabilities, would destroy any version of Roy in my opinion. There's no way that Roy would ever have fought Mike when he was younger, even if Roy had've fought in that era. But Mike from 2000 onwards, was just fighting purely for money, and he wasn't even in shape for most of his fights. You saw him against Lennox. He wasn't even a shell of his former self. He just needed the cheque.

He wasn't training properly, getting a face tattoo the week before the Etienne fight etc. He got knocked out by Danny Williams and quit against Kevin McBride in 2004 and 2005. Neither of those guys would have made it through the first round back in the day. I think the Ruiz version of Roy could have kept out of harms way for the fight. Obviously if Mike had've caught him, Roy would have been asleep. But I don't think Mike would have gotten the opportunity. I think Roy's speed would have been far too much for him at that point. I could definitely envisage Roy beating him on points. Mike was completely done at that point.

Early in 2003, Lennox made various statements praising Roy's performance against Ruiz, but also stating that a fight with him would be a bridge too far for Roy. He thought that a fight against Roy would be an easy nights work for a huge amount of money. Roy also thought that Lennox was too big. But then the Vitali fight changed everything. Nobody knew at the time, that it would be Lennox's final fight. Despite the win, Lewis struggled with Vitali, and after the fight, he knew it was time to let go. Roy was ringside for the fight, and after it had finished, Lennox's performance gave Roy the confidence to ask for the fight. He told Murad Muhammad he'd seen lots of things he could exploit, and he told Murad he wanted to fight him.

There's various links on the free library. Roy approached Lennox, and Lennox told Roy that he was definitely going to retire. So Lennox was more than up for the fight early 2003, but after the Vitali fight, he knew it was time to let go. I'm obviously not saying Lennox ducked Roy, but the fact is, he'd got nothing left to give and he called it a day. A fight with Roy would have made millions of dollars. People think that Roy cherry picked Ruiz (which wasn't true, as Holy was the initial target) and then he ran back for Tarver. But the truth is, Roy desperately wanted Tyson, and he enquired about Lennox, while Tarver was baiting him at every opportunity. When the fights at heavy weren't there to be made, he then reluctantly went back for Tarver. He left his Ruiz weight on for a while in the hope of fighting again at heavy. That's why he had to rush to get the weight off for the Tarver fight.

A peak version of Lennox obviously would have beaten Roy. But I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that Roy could have beaten THAT VERSION of Lennox from 2003. I don't think he would have had a big chance, but I definitely think that he would have had A CHANCE.

So, I don't think those three fighters would have destroyed Roy at that point in their career's, and that's my honest opinion.

 

When the hell did Tyson train right any time after 1999..His heart just wasnt in it any more..But I still say he beats Roy..And as far a Lewis goes Ill give Roy a chance but not much of one...I know it wasnt Lewis at his best 2003-04...but it was around that time that Tarver handed Roy his ass so I dont know how much stock I can put into Roy stayin at HW either..I think he did the right thing my man!

 

I respect your opinion.

We both know that if Tyson had've caught him, that would have been it. We know that Tarver and Johnson knocked Roy out in 2004. But Roy was never the same after dropping back from heavy. The Ruiz version of Roy was a completely different fighter. I think Roy would have been too fast for Mike.

I'd have given Roy a 30-40% chance of beating a late 2003 version of Lennox.

After watching Toney vs Holy, I definitely think Roy would have beaten Holy.

The biggest mistake Roy ever made, was forcing Tarver into an eliminator with Eric Harding in 2000. Harding beat Tarver, and then Roy fought Harding. If Roy had've beaten Tarver in 2001-2001 (Which he would have done in my opinion) then Roy would never have rushed back to 175 in 2003, and things could have been very different.

He might have had a few other fights at Heavyweight, or even at Cruiserweight.

 

Any version of Holy beats him...thats just the wrong style for Roy..bad idea

And still the fact does remain Roy didnt return to HW...And Tarver or Hopkins was comin far him no matter what..But I would have hated to see him lose like that to Bernard..

Lewis in my opinion like you said was just too big for him and I still think Roy did the right thing..

 

jones was never a champion in recess when he held the wba title. i believe the reason some of these fighters didn't want the fight is because don king always had his hand on the wba belt. king worked it until he had his two fighters, rahman and ruiz, fighting for the interim title. king even had control of jones as long as he held the wba belt. that was part of the contract jones signed vs ruiz. jones was eventually forced to fight ruiz again in order to keep his belt and then relinquished the title in feb 2004, two weeks after lennox retired.

 

hey loudon! hope things are good. yes, in retrospect, i guess forcing tarver to fight harding was bad but i think just the fact he came back down from heavy was his worst decision.

 

i don't think you realize how far gone holyfield was even in '03. he got ko'ed by james toney. that would have been an easy win for jones after ruiz. jones tried to fight holyfield in '97. would have been a huge fight and holy would have been the favorite but evander had other big money opponents to choose from.

 

I think Holy at his best would have beaten Roy, but not in 2003.

Hopkins didn't want any part of Roy, until Roy was finished in my opinion.

 

Hiya pal, nice to see you.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Roy's worst decision was going back to 175 in a rush. But that all stemmed from him pushing Tarver and Harding into the eliminator. I personally think that Roy did it to get under Tarver's skin, and I believe that he would have fought and beat Tarver, had Tarver beaten Harding.

If that had have happened, then he never would have rushed back down to 175 for Tarver in 2003. Tarver crashed the post Ruiz press conference and baited Roy at every given opportunity. He really got under his skin.

But if Tarver had've been dealt with earlier, then Roy probably would have stayed at HW for a longer period, or maybe even fought at CW. Or maybe he'd have taken a long break, and gone back to 175 safely at some point down the road? I'm only surmising, but I think Roy's career would have turned out a lot different.