The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats

So which of the current 50 would you for sure argue him above?

 

Not really 100% sold tbh. Only one prime loss, but it is unavanged and whilst he runs 5-0-1 in title fights, he was never linear I don't think? And there's a bunch of other guys running around with belts. Arguello is obviously a very nice win, but I don't see that he's clearly greater than DeJesus for example.

 

Here's my problem, tell me what i'm missing.

Guys on the 100 he met:

Lou Ambers - 0:1:2
Henry Armstrong - 2:3
Tony Canzoneri - 0-1

The two wins over Armstrong are the pre-prime version, and Armstrong himself claims both results were hinky. So he's 2-1-6 against legitimate ATG fighters.

Now let's widen that out so that we're taking into account dudes who are under consideration for the 150:

Freddie Miller: 1-1
Sammy Angott: 0-1-1

That makes him 3-2-8 against the top 150. It's not special. Nor are his title reigns and the only film i've seen of him is his being battered by Armstrong. Now, the two wins he has at ATG level might be on the level, but it does kind of make me wonder given what Armstrong did with him once he was established. Even if they are on the level, the series itself is testimony to just how much Armstrong improved.

I'm not saying he isn't special. I'm saying he is special. But I don't think he's a lock for the 150, even when you consider his next tier down type wins against Newsboy Brown and Chalky Wright.

I also wouldn't have him in front of the fighters you've mentioned.

 

Tier I
Kid McCoy, Beau Jack, Tiger Flowers, Jeff Smith, Sammy Mandell, Kid Chocolate, Johnny Dundee, Sammy Agnott, Billy Graham.

Tier II
Bob Montgomery, Jeff Fenech, Eusebio Pedroza, Ad Wolgast, Midget Wolgast, Benny Lynch, Billy Petrolle, Pancho Villa, Eddie Booker, Young Stribling.

Tier III
Aaron Pryor, Joe Calzaghe, Mike Tyson, Antonio Cervantes, Joe Brown, Duilio Loi, Marcel Cerdan, Fidel LaBarbara, Sammy Fuller, Nino Benvenuti, Ricardo Lopez, Ernesto Marcel.

TIER IV
Bud Taylor, Frankie Genaro, Flash Elorde, Battling Nelson, Freddie Miller, Les Darcy, Joe Lynch, Sonny Liston, Jack Johnson.

TIER V
Jack Dempsey, Harry Wills, Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, Jim Jeffries, Jimmy Barry, Willie Joyce, Gilberto Roman. Maxie Rosenbloom.

Holding
K Galaxy, Sixto Escobar, Brian Mitchell, Felix Trinidad, Yuri Arbachakov, Kostya Tszyu, Cocoa Kid, Sugar Shane Mosley, Esteban DeJesus, Matthew Sadd Muhammad, Battling Battalino, Ernesto Marcel, Baby Arzimandi, Fred Apostoli, Lew Jenkins.


Drew is right about Battalino though, so i've moved him back to holding. I make two spaces.

 

Maybe. But right now he's in the same tier as Mike Tyson. Surely you remember the tier system?

 

The thing about Calzaghe is - he beat his Buster Douglas types. All of them. Then he added Kessler and Hopkins, who I suspect were as good at their respective weights as the best Tyson beat at heavy. Spinks is most definitely a better LHW than Hopkins is a LHW and Kessler is a SMW, but at heavy, I don't know.