Joe louis vs larry holmes

Joe Louise left hand, was slower than Larry, but he threw it from the back right foot , to get power and it was more of a power punch than a jab. keo.

 

The difference of these guys is Holmes never proved he could beat the very best of his era, Its extrapolation to believe he could beat the guys he avoided, Page,Dokes,Coetzee,Thomas,Weaver,Tate, and Homes never rematched a tough fight,Norton,Witherspoon,Williams,Weaver(when prime) and never unified, Joe Louis did all of these

 

I just don't think that Holmes is mobile enough to keep away from Louis for fifteen rounds.

 

No he wasn't. I agree. If Shavers, Weaver, Snipes and a few others could find a way to tag him, then I have no doubt that a man of Louis's handspeed and technical accumen could find him and cause problems.. Louis could certainly win this, and in fact I have picked him on and off in the past, whenever this matchup appears periodically. My hesitation at making it a given however, is that I don't think Holmes is going to fold the first or even second time that Louis unloads on him or has him on the ropes. He'll hurt Larry, perhaps even drop him.. But Holmes was tough and also possesed the kind of boxing ability and ring generalship that could build a lead on the scorecards. He also had more snap to his shots than some of the boxer types who troubled Joe in the past, along with a nasty uppercut which landed whenever he was backed into a corner or up against the ropes ( see Mike Weaver fight as an example. ) Holmes wouldn't be the largest fighter that Louis ever fought, but he was bigger than the vast majority of them, possesing a significant reach even for a man of 6'3", and unlike a lot of past giants KNEW HOW to fight big. The fifteen round distance was also something that he wasn't foreign too. I obviously can't write this off as a win for Larry due to his inconcistant tendency to lose focus and get in trouble against lesser fighters.. But in all honesty, Joe had a few nights like that too.. This would be a classic war between a pure boxer vs a pure puncher, with the only exception being that both were more technically skilled in their given trades than most others of their craft... Probably one of the best matches that could ever be made....

I give the edge to Holmes, but next week I might pick Louis.

 

Louis had a difficult time with guys the were several levels below Larry as a fighter. Bringing those sorts of things up are pointless, what should be brought up are the styles that troubled the fighters.

Boxers troubled Louis. Boxers troubled Holmes. Holmes was more of a boxer. Louis was more of a puncher.

Holmes had the advantage in the style and physical match up.

Did Louis really fight "much" better punchers than Larry?

Earnie Shavers, Ken Norton, Mike Weaver, Gerry Cooney, James Smith, Tim Witherspoon, Ray Mercer, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, and Oliver McCall is not exactly an easy-punching line up to deal with.

Witherspoon was so effective against Larry due to his awkward Norton-esque defense has he pressed in. Louis didn't have that kind of awkward defense that troubled guys like Holmes and Ali.

Yes, Holmes was indeed past his prime against Witherspoon. He had become less and less mobile during his fights from about 1982 on. His reflexes were starting to go and his punches were becoming less and less quick.

Watch Holmes fight in 1980 then watch Holmes fight in 1985 or 1986. There is a big difference in mobility and handspeed.

I never said Holmes had a better punch variety than Louis. I said Holmes had a very good punch variety, he had plenty more than just the jab to trouble Louis with. That was the point of that statement.

Holmes definitely had the power to drop Louis. He had the power to hurt most of the people he faced, he had the power to knock guys out with 1 shot, even the power to hurt and drop people with jabs. He is at least as likely to drop Louis as Louis is to drop him.

 

So what?

Joe Louis was hurt by Billy Conn.

 

So, you're holding it against Holmes to get hurt once in 23 rounds against Shavers, who is the generally agreed upon hardest puncher of all time?

 

EXACTLY! :good Jesus what's all this about Holmes being verging on the footspeed and movement of Ali??! Holmes stepped around? And pretty flatfooted? Yes he tended to move. But he wasn't quick?! Someone suggested Larry was quicker than Billy Conn earlier in this thread!!!?? :rofl Hahaha that was one of the most bizarre things I have ever read on this forum (and that's saying something) - so the 215lb Larry Holmes was quicker than the 169lb quick for a light heavyweight Billy Conn!?? That is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous!!! Jersey Joe was quicker than Holmes?? Pretty clearly in my opinion - and didn't paw with his left for 50% of the time like Holmes? Yes Holmes was snappy with his jab when he wanted to be but he was also lazy with it for a good portion of the time using a lazy jab and trying to put a right hand behind it...and there really wasn't a great deal on his right hand either? He pawed and held it out as a range finder as much as he snapped the jab out and he really had to really force it to get any real authority into his punches generally he didn't really hurt people very much at all which is why he was the one generally moving. And yeah sometimes he liked to have a bit of an Ali moment - but it wasn't really the way he moved - anyone can have their moments but generally he boxed textbook and Joe Louis crucified textbook boxers and Larry was there for the taking on occasions like Shavers and Snipes to such an extent that I am 100 percent convinced that, had it been Louis in there, then Larry would've been kayoed a la Tyson later but quicker and more precisely

 

Very hard fight to pick a winner in. I rate Holmes very highly, but I think Louis would have got to him eventually. The key factor here is power;if Ken Norton could shake off Larry's best shots, Joe could. I would go for Joe on points or very late stoppage.

 

Considering every oponent of Shavers, barring Jerry Quarry (who was unaware he even got hit) said Shavers was the hardest puncher they faced, it's pretty safe to assume Shavers was indeed the hardest puncher.

Snipes, like Shavers, caught Larry being careless. Larry was careless because he was being ridiculously dominant in the fight and wasn't being careful and paid the price.

The fact that Holmes was barely touched by Shavers in 23 rounds with him is impressive. Holmes pitched 12 round shut out over Earnie in their first fight and won all but 1 round (the round he was dropped in) in the rematch.

Witherspoon did rock Larry in the 9th, but it should also be mentioned that Larry came right back in the same round by seriously hurting Witherspoon, too.

What is Louis's excuse for being dropped by the wild Tony Galento (even more crude than Shavers), Buddy Baer (at the very least equally as crude as Shavers), or Jim Braddock (former lightheavy)?