Jack Dempsey vs James Toney

Poor Dempsey must be turning in his grave!

 

I know, even the suggestion he fight a black man must make him spin like dervish.

 

You don't need to fight Harry Wills to put yourself well outside Toneys class at heavyweight.

How many top contenders of the day did Toney fail to fight at heavyweight, and in how many cases was it his fault?

 

Dempsey by domination

 

OK, the best benchmark for this on Dempsey's side is Gibbons. And Dempsey, upon realizing he couldn't take him out early, broke him down methodically with body work, power and good boxing. He had him on the verge of a KO in the final two rounds. And that's a 1920's KO, not a latter day 20th century KO.

Hate to be unpopular here but Gibbons, on record, was more proven, more consistent fighter than Toney. Names like Miske, Greb, Norfolk, Chip and Carpentier fill his win column. And the only guys in his loss column are Tunney, Miske, Greb and Dempsey, no Drake Thadzi's there.

I don't think Toney is going to show Dempsey a lot he hadn't already seen from Gibbons who was known to be extremely clever and possessing a good punch later in his career.

On Toney's recprd, there is no great equivalent for Dempsey. There is Peter for sheer power (and Peter did a fine job putting Toney into a shell in the 2nd fight) For speed of attack, I can think of no one at the higher weights but maybe Jones, Jr down at middle. I think the combination of speed and power might be too much for Toney handle. He really preferred things to go at his pace, and Dempsey certainly would not oblige.

 

Yeah the very thought must've given him real nightmares - considering he fought the likes of Emmanuel Campbell, George Christian, Boston Bearcat, John Lester Johnson - ALL BLACK - and regularly mixing it in sparring with the likes of Big Bill Tate, George Godfrey etc etc - AGAIN BLACK - yeah the very idea of fighting a Black man must've seemed like the horror of horrors!

 

Dempsey wins

 

Good post.

 

yes, just like he dominated tunney(yes, he was not in his prime, but at the same time he knocked sharkey the **** out, so i think that it was more a stylistical thing), i am pretty sure that toney would avoid the best shots from dempsey and he had a great chin to last well the distance and if it goes to the distance i don´t know if dempsey would win a decision...

 

Dempsey weighed around 190 lbs.

He was hardly a heavyweight by today's standards.

 

And ALL FOUGHT BEFORE HE WAS 21. And never another man of color entered the ring for a purse against Dempsey in his career. Including some guy who was claimed to be the number one contender for half a dozen years.

Sparring? Did you say sparring? Can you take the title in a sparring session?


Don't worry, I'm still picking Dempsey in this one.

 

yes, a 137 years old liston did beat a PEAK foreman in a sparring session so he would beat him for the title facts:deal

 

Dempsey by decision or stoppage ...

 

Toney has the faster hands with straighter punches that would land first

That's not how boxing works, if you make a mistake you get counterpunched which stops you in your tracks or backs you up. Dempsey had varying levels of trouble being counter punched by Brennan, Miske, Gibbons and ofcourse Tunney, only Tunney really in Toney's class.

Toney didn't avoid anyone though, he was injured for a year in '04 and banned after the Ruiz positive test.

His first fight after Jirov was Holyfield, he then had top 10 opponents in Ruiz, Peter and Rahman. The Klit's wanted around 90-95% of the purse against Toney around '04/'06. Only in '03 was he really near his best.

Toney's HW/Cruser opponents match up pretty well against Dempsey's though

 

Tunney beats Toney by a wide margin, Dempsey dominates him and a possible stop, too heavy handed and fast and some fine body shots ...I remember middleweight Dave Tiberi giving James a body shellacking, Dempsey does it better