Duran and Leonard made ridiculous comments. Like the fab 4 again is untouchable.

I'm not a Duran apologist so there's no point in asking me to spare anything. As for the ranking these aren't only my thoughts on it. The classic section has the same order as does the IBRO

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The big knock against SRL is his relatively few fights and he used his economic clout to dictate the terms of many fights.

Had he fought another 15-20 more fights and done well he could have very well passed Duran. And yes, size does make a difference, which is why most rate Holyfield above Lewis P4P but not on an ATG heavyweight list.

 

Shot to **** Benitez? He was ****in' undefeated when they fought...atsch

 

Yeah, stating that Benitez was shot to **** obliterates the limited amount of credibility that Foxy has displayed on the subject thus far. After all, it's not like Benitez didn't go on to win a title at 154lbs (against a capable Maurice Hope) and then win a wide decision against...guess who?...Roberto Duran.

Come to think of it, if a 'shot to ****' El Radar could win as easily as he did against Duran, can you imagine how Floyd might fare...? :think

If Foxy keeps at it, he might just convince me that Floyd takes this match-up, after all.

 

No doubt about it Leonard had a hell of a career. The ONLY knock against it was he fought far fewer fights than Archie Moore, SRR and yes Duran.

 

Yeah, I mean is it really a stretch to say Benitez was one of the five best defensive talents since the heyday of Willie Pep? I wouldn't think so, and I'm basing that simply off his ability and skills shown in the ring even though he put together a HOF worthy record as well. The guy was a serious problem. When he met SRL, undefeated as well as being both younger and more experienced. I really don't hesitate to cite it being as high as Leonard's second best win depending on the day, all things considered.

Yeah, I rate all those guys above him. The perception some people seem to have of Leonard is just so terribly one sided and out of whack that a firm push from the opposite side of the spectrum is necessary sometimes.

 

The Classic is a mine of insight and education but I always end up leaving because of the constant hate for SRL(among a few less obvious issues) but Boxing News has Leonard at#5 and Duran at #6 on their list.

It's all subjective but I think it's a fair criteria to set if you judge them H2H in perhaps the greatest era of non-heavyweights ever.
Only my opinion though.I don't think Duran beat anyone Ray couldn't in his prime from 147-160.
The 160 division is where you have room for conjecture,but I still feel if Ray had gone to 160 in say,83,he beats most outwith Hagler,who may have posed different problems in 84 or 85.

Although McCallum gives all four problems and is probably the one guy who could live with these guys.

 

I pretty agree that SRL could beat pretty much anyone Duran could, but he was also a bigger fighter. Duran is considered the 1st or 2nd best lightweight of all time while SRL is considered the 2nd best welterweight, so it stands to reason that SRL could beat bigger fighters than Duran. But on a p4p list, I would rate Duran slightly higher than SRL. But honestly they're both in the very top eshleon of ATG fighters and both are comfortably in the top 5 -15 all time. I've never been one to knock down one fighter to support another and I'm certainly not going to knock either one of these legends.

 

:deal

And GF kids think they're really doing something by taking shots at him. Please. One of the most hated fighters on the forum, easily.

 

You see it's far easier to have a measured debate when you have the sort of posters you have debating here,but although there are several posters in the Classic who have forgot more than I've remembered,the hate for Ray is quite intense.
Duranimal is a good poster on this subject though.It's no secret that he hates Ray but he gives credit when due and makes good arguments when he does question aspects of Ray's career or character.
Deep down though, he knows what time it is.

 

He made Duran quit and sent Hagler into retirement. Both are massively popular ATGs with large followings. There will be butthurt.

 

I just can't buy into it mate because I think the world of the other three.
But it seems for many(present company excluded) that Ray is the devil incarnate if you're a Duran or Hagler fan.

 

Perhaps, but without a SRL then Duran losses credit for the best win of his career. (but then he also avoids the worst type of defeat of his career). So to me it's a saw off.

Hagler, different story, it would have been nice to have seen a rematch. Not sure why a rematch clause wasn't agreed to prior to the fight, but such is life

 

mmh had no leverage . . . he agreed to everything in favour of srl just to get him in the ring. he thought h got robbed so he said he would never fight again unless it was srl

 

Yes, that's pretty much how I understood it to be too, but too bad he didn't hold out for a rematch clause. It's fairly standard for the champ to insist on that clause if they're fighting for HIS title.

That said, the one knock I have against SRL is how he would use his economic clout to get fights on his terms, much like Mayweather is doing now.

 

I agree. When Benitez fought Leonard he was an undefeated champ. And when he fought Hearns he was a champion at 154 with only one loss to Leonard. He didn't look worn out until he went up to middleweight later on after fighting Hamsho. Bad stylistic matchup for Wilfred. In retrospect Hamsho was not a guy to fight. Czyz and Benitez both didn't do well with him.