When its all said and done Oscar de La Hoya will rank higher than Floyd Mayweather Jr

I can't fathom that. Oscar has beaten more ATG's in or close to their primes, and has an equal amount of depth in his resume.

He lost once in his prime at his prime weight to a man he later beat in the eyes of most, and lost one or two fights way out of his natural weight class and above any weight Floyd has competed at.

The 0 only gets you so far.

 

Some people think he lost to Whitaker and Quartey.

 

The reality is Mayweather beat Oscar when they fought.

 

What does that have to do with what I responded to? I simply stated that some people think Oscar lost to Whitaker and Quartey when he said Oscar only lost to Shane in his prime. I didn't even mention Floyd.

 

It does all depend on how you score those fights. But losses don't detract from accomplishments, they're simply failures to add weight to your resume. You don't subtract points in basketball or football/soccer for missed shots.

 

Yeah I agree but I'm not sure if I agree with your analogy (or maybe I don't understand it). Comparing legacies in boxing applies the same way in basketball. If a player continues to lose in big games then people will criticize them for it. If a player wins then they are praised. That is why you hear people say, "Oscar lost most of his biggest fights". Whether or not it is true, people always look at what a fighter did on the biggest stage.

 

But if you're going to play that game you know people will come back with FLoyd lost to Castillo. Don't act surprised

 

I think everything is out there now, there's not much to really discuss anymore.

1) Resume and Defining Wins
2) Skill level
3) H2H Ability against eachother
4) H2H Ability in general in the weight classes they operated in
5) Longevity
6) Other accomplishments
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1. Resume and Career Defining Wins
- Oscar's resume is far more stacked from start to finish. Fighting Bredahl at 130, to fighting Sturm at 160. Names in between include the likes of Prime Mosley, Whitaker, Trinidad.

- Mayweather is undefeated in a resume full of B level fighters. A resume that Oscar can get through unbeaten easily. The fact is, people are pissing on Oscar for his losses, but if you decide to **** on Oscar for his losses, you must be willing to allow for certain points like 'Oscar goes through Mayweather's resume undefeated as well', 'Mayweather will go through Oscar's resume and be defeated arguably numerous times'.

- What's even worse is that Oscar is chastisied for his losses past prime, and also for the robberies, and his even fight with a Top 20 ATG. If you want to rank Oscar based on the losses given by judges, even though they were robberies, you can do that, but at least know that you're not really ranking the Oscar of reality, but the Oscar on paper. I bet you give Whitaker the credit for his win against Chavez. So why treat this any different?

- Imagine Barney Ross's resume..the career defining wins, and the draws and losses that had come in his resume. This is a guy who is on the same tier as Ray Leonard (far greater than Oscar and Floyd). Someone who is even better than Barney Ross H2H and skill level i.e Pernell Whitaker, will not be considered as great because Barney has greater career defining wins.
Also, Tony Canzoneri is unanimously regarded as a Top 25 fighter at worst. This man has 24 losses, against top opposition too.

- With that said, lets flip the names so you can assess who's career defining wins are greater:

Floyd Mayweather
W Felix Trinidad (Prime+ATG+Undefeated)
Even fight with Pernell Whitaker

(Whether you say win or loss - we can all agree that it's an EVEN fight with a Top 20 ATG, who is Top 5 most skilled fighter ever. And I ask you to analyse Pernell in this fight compared to his other fights, such little difference and a lot of that difference can be caused by the fact that he was up against a prime Oscar...has anyone even considered that? Have you considered that he still landed more punches (although less power shots) than a prime Oscar who usually outworks his opponents? This version of Whitaker is still far better than Felix Trinidad, who is far better than anyone on Mayweather's resume)


Oscar De La Hoya
W Miguel Cotto
W Jose Luis Castillo
W Diego Corrales
W Ricky Hatton

- Already you see that this version of 'Floyd Mayweather' has been tested to be an elite ATG, whereas this version of 'Oscar De La Hoya' does have very good names on his resume, but none of them are against Greats. It's fairly obvious that being tested against an ATG who is also a KO artist, as well as a Top 20 ATG a little past his prime is more defining than beating these FOUR opponents. Looking at the resume, we can see that Oscar can hang with the elite.

- Having said that, Mayweather holds the advantage when it comes to weight. Oscar was a weight cutter, however the effect of his weight cutting is somewhat reduced by the fact that when his weight cutting held the most advantage in his career, he was actually not even prime yet, he was a green fighter. When you assess Canelo's career in 10 years time, are you going to **** on his 154lb resume wins when he was green? I don't think so.
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2. Skill level
Floyd is more skilled than Oscar. Sure. But Oscar does have a lot of skill himself, so the gap isn't that strong, and the weighting of Floyd's skill level being greater than Oscar's is further reduced by the following factor:

3. H2H ability against eachother
One thing is pretty clear, Prime Oscar beats Prime Floyd..even with Floyd's greater skill level, it still is not enough to beat a prime Oscar in a head-to-head battle.
You can use your common sense to see how the fight will go..
Prime Oscar will land more frequently, more effective aggression, faster reflexes, land more defining power punches than an Oscar who fought Floyd (3/4 years past Oscar's prime). The judges on the night will have it a victory for Oscar, compubox will show it's closer, but still a win for Oscar.

4. H2H ability in general:
Floyd at 130lbs is the best he's ever been. I'm slightly favouring Floyd against a green Oscar who is not near his prime yet, nor his prime weight.
Any other weight, Oscar wins.
Oscar would be more favoured to win bouts at 140+ than Floyd will. How would Floyd do against a 2000 or 2003 roided Mosley? How would he do against a Felix Trinidad (Polls are usually 60:40 in favour of Floyd, but 40% is a huge number), Ike Quartey-Floyd Mayweather polls are usually even.
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Longevity -
Mayweather wins, but not by as great of a margin as you're inclined to think at face value.
Oscar had a stacked resume against greater fighters, had been in the ring and traded with huge punchers like Trinidad, Mosley, Vargas etc. The level of competition here is very relevant. Just look at Mayweather in his fight against Cotto. If he fought like that in all of his fights and had taken opposition like that all the time, he would have slipped quicker too.
So no more 'Floyd has been in the game for 17 years' without assessing the situation holistically please.
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Other Accomplishments -
Oscar had given Floyd the platform to take over as the main money maker in the sport, after Floyd fought Oscar.
Oscar has the very successful Golden Boy Promotions, Oscar was even a part time boxer when he created Golden Boy.
Oscar is an Olympic Gold Medalist.
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It's up to you, will you like to overrate Floyd's longevity and skill level? Both factors have an asterisks beside them when comparing to Oscar.
Oscar still has an extremely great skill level himself..

I think it's pretty clear that Floyd has the slight advantage in slightly lesser factors, but Oscar has achieved the greater things.

The people who say Oscar is not Top 50 are the ones who hold Oscar's questionable losses against him, and act as though a prime Oscar not a dead, medicall attention requiring, shot Oscar, lost the fight against Pacquiao.

Oscar > Floyd

 

No he wont

 

DLH was a great fighter, a HOF,one of my favorites ever.
Floyd is the best of his generation.
DLH most important fights- fighting HOF's on their primes- resulted in loses.Tito,Mosley(twice)BHop.Pernell was not on his prime, neither was Vargas.
You can argue that he was robbed against Tito, but can also say he got a gift against Sturm,Pernel, Ike.He fought the shadow of Chavez(twice),fighting Gatti at welter.
Floyd only controversial fight was Castillo 1. All other fights he barely ever loses 1 round.

 

Odlh>fmj

 

yep and Mayweather is just a better fighter overall. It is really not that hard to see.

 

I don't know why this thread is still going PBF could retire today and already be greater. He has 5 fights left to add to his already great legacy. Oscar is retired and can't do the same. Also Oscar was never seen as the best fighter of his era PBF has.:deal