Was Sugar Ray Leonard...

What does it matter if Leonard would beat Mayweather.
Mayweather is a career 130 lbs fighter, Leonard 147 lbs.
At their own divisions they both have a point for being h2h the very best ever, but at 147 Mayweather is giving up a lot of his physical advantages he had at 130.

 

I know you werent mate, i just used Floyd as an example

 

Sanchez was just getting warmed up. Sanchez was really amazing, putting out lights the way he did: Lopez and those guys, and Gomez who had a 100%KO ratio. He was my fighter of the year in 1981 with Hagler second and Leonard third

Thi is the way I have it FF

RJJ

Floyd (never lost, hardly ever loses a round)

and then rl

 

He was THAT GOOD. atsch Damn, are you serious?

 

add more wins over Pryor, Curry, Honeyghan, rematch with Hearns, Micheal Nunn. seeing IS believing

and the more wins the better

 

A truly laughable and ridiculous assertion that totally ignores the fact that Duran had moved up to the welterweight division a full two years prior to the fight with Leonard.

 

The best I've ever seen in my lifetime

 

stoppages over Nelson , Gomez , Dany Lopez*2 and a decision (I scored it a draw , but a draw is far better than a ducking and even than a loss) over LaPorte r far better than FMJ's or RJJ's careers in their entirety , and then even more since Sanchez did not duck his potential opponents like RJJ and FMJ did , and did not have RJJ's stoppage losses : RJJ was younger than Tarver , less drug abused , had a shorter amateur career which does its damage as well , and got hit even less than Tarver b/c he fought either dead , severely undersized or crap fighters , and did not cut as much w8 as Tarver did , so Jones was actually in a much better st8 than Tarver . RJJ was also de same age as Glen Johnson , was actually slightly bigger than him and took less punishment until de time they fought due 2d reasons detailed in de Tarver case .
So Jones' losses 2 Tarver and Johnson do count .
FMJ might have never lost (need 2c de 2 JLC fights 2 judge 4 myself and I do not crave 2) but even if it is true then it is only due 2 him rarely fought .
Even de Cotto that he fought was more finished than himself by then .
Floyd avoided Pacquiao , Paul Williams , prime Cotto , Margachito b4 it was known that he was a cheater , and possibly Kostya Tszyu .
Now he wants 2 drain Alvarez 2 147 or no fight , and a few actually try 2 make a case 4 Alvarez ducking Mayweather b/c he does not want 2 kill himself b4 de fight begins .
Alvarez probably needs 2 move up 2 160 or maybe a fight with Kirkland whom will destroy him probably .
back 2d topic and in short , Sanchez did more in his "warming up" than almost every1 else did in their entire careers .

 

I am saying he was not completely superfighter yet. He needed the mental aspect solid as well as he had the physical. When Duran made Ray fight his fight by insulting him and calling his wife names, Ray said I am going to fight that man at his own game. And he did, and as he said he almost beat him. But he realized the brilliance in Duran to make him fight like that, and he learned big time his mistake. I think once he figured out that no matter what a man does to not lose track and fighter you fight, he was the superfighter. He reached the mental level of a great like Duran and then turned it back on Duran after he learned. That was the last thing he needed to become great and a superfighter. Thanks to Duran. Although after that fight Ray tried to do the mental trick Duran did and it did not work for Ray. The only time it worked was for Hagler. He kissed Marvin ass a little bit and Marvin did come out right handed and not pumped up. So he did the reverse Duran and made Hagler fight less intense, and also being so inactive he knew Marvin would underrate him.

 

. Like I said you could be rite but I don't think it's proof. Could of just been a case of Leonard underestimating duran and being overly confident in himself. Which IMO doesn't make you green only human.

 

My point was that any version of Leonard would lose to prime Duran at his natural size, which was lightweight.

 

No.He was probably even better.

Nice to see the Camacho and Norris fights being used as examples of why he might not've been.
I often refer to the Trevor Berbick fight when I like to think of why Ali is overrated,so I do see where that comes from.

Ah, the old 40 fights argument from the 12 year olds and the "look at how shot he was at 34" from the younger ones.

That guy crammed more into 3 years 79-82 than many future HOF'rs will in their careers.Produced the best one fight comeback in history and answered every major question asked of him in his prime years.

The "not a HOF'r" was the best though. Thanks for that.

 

no he probably wasn't better

I've never seen a fighter ask for so many concessions, dictating weight to the defending champion including Hagler in 81, Lalonde in 88, & Duran in 89

It was different with Pryor; he needed no concessions when moving up in weight.

unfortunately, Leonard dictated Pryor's purse also and priced himself out of the fight as planned

Leonard crammed more ducking into four years than ANY HOFer did in their enitre careers

....but when it came to answering the kind of questions asked by Norris & Camacho, he was completely clueless.


I know, some people who are not in touch with reality and cant seem to seperate unrelated events, will blame it on Trevor Berbick

Some people still don't know that Ali & Leonard were two different fighters

 

Hands Of Iron has obliterated the Pryor argument time after time.

Leonard was shot after Hagler,so any reference to Camacho and Norris is only useful and relevant to people with clear agendas.

Not that I'm saying you have one Red.
The ducking issue is really a non issue for people without hate filled agendas,and I agree that if people can't tell the difference between Ali and Leonard then they have a real problem.
Leonard should still have retired after Hagler when he was clearly shot,as most fighters in their thirties were back then.
I know it bothers you,but arguing on a forum and bringing up Norris,Camacho and Pryor won't change the fact that he is a top 10-15 ATG.
And he crammed that into forty fights.
And he was shot in at least four of them.

 

I havent seen hands of Iron rebuttal. Is that the one where Leonard dictated Aaron's purse, treating him like a 6 round prelim fighter, and prices himself out of the fight?

Leonard ducked the **** out of Pryor, and Hagler when both were in their prime and everyone knows it

That's the difference between Leonard & Pryor. In no way would Pryor give the impression he is hesitant to move up and fight you

whereas with Leonard, the defending champ will have to wait five yrs, and if the defending champ is still there, Ray will come racing to pick up whatever pieces are left and only after you shave off two rounds for the king of remedial boxing, and wear big fluffy red pillows as gloves

when leonard DOES lose, you can be sure there will be people like yourself to put their best spin on it.

This is Ali-Berbick! "People back in the 1980s didnt fight past thirty!"

"That was PRE-Hopkins & Foreman!"

what're you, TWELVE years old?

I could go on and on but this wouldnt be fair to you as leonard just doesnt have the quantity that Norris & Camacho boasted, nor was he able to withstand the attack of either man