Look let's be realistic here. Wlad/Vitali/Lewis would dominate any era of HW boxing

The thing that makes Ali so revered is his great boxing skills combined with his gift of the gab, he really knew how to market himself. He talked a lot of trash and backed it up when it mattered most. His losses against Frazier and Norton weren't as big as his upset victories against Liston and Foreman.

When you ask any common person who the greatest boxer of all time is, they say Muhammad Ali. Why? Because Muhammad Ali kept saying that (self promotion), and had some great victories (in terms of popularity).

It doesn't matter what hardcore boxing fans believe, they themselves are heavily influenced by the casual fan and the general public. The key to being the best is self promotion and some upset victories.

Bernard Hopkins had he talked much more trash and self promoted more would be much higher on ATG lists. Fact.

 

Ali would never be able to escape that jab, that was always his achilles's heel if you watched Ali fight.

When faced against big men with ridiculous jabs like Lennox/Wlad, he'd be destroyed.

 

I've never mentioned Lennox's losses. Anyone can get caught in heavyweight boxing. My opinion on Lennox is, he was a great fighter, but in my opinion he'd have lost to Ali, a young and focused Tyson fighting to his full capabilities, and Larry Holmes.

I think Vitali would have troubled any era, but not dominated.

Wlad is the weak link for me.

I think he's skilled, but not as skilled as Lennox. I think he's more skilled than Vitali, but he doesn't have Vitali's chin or his confidence.

I think the following guys would have beaten him:

Ali
Foreman
Tyson
Holmes
Holyfield
Lewis

I think these guys could have beaten him:

Bowe
Frazier
Ibeabuchi

 

Nah.

You're just very biased vs Vitali.

Vitali would beat Ali and everyone you mentioned there besides Lewis.

 

How?

How would Wlad be able to cope with Ali's footwork? We're not talking about a 70's version who couldn't dance, who had to take vicious shots from Foreman and Frazier etc.

 

Destroyed?

He wouldn't have been there to be hit.

Ali struggled with fast guys when he was young, and in the 70's when he couldn't dance and was getting hit. That's when he was vulnerable.

Now we've seen how David Haye managed to frustrate Wlad with minimal movement.

How would Wlad have dealt with Ali's incredible footwork?

We're talking about a 25 year old, 1967 version of Ali up on his toes dancing like Ray Leonard.

Explain?

Ali would have been on his toes, constantly firing the jab, and coming in and out of range from different angles. How would Wlad have coped, and been able to get his own shots off to score?

Wlad is a big strong, skilled guy, with lots of power. But he's slow and methodical. Ali was the quickest heavy of all time. He would have thrown combinations at Wlad and then jumped back out of range. There's no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Wlad could have dealt with Ali's movement.

Absolutely none.

Speed can offset anything.

 

There's no evidence that Ali would have been able to deal with Wlad/Lewis/Vitali's size/skills, absolutely none. He was beaten by 6 fight pro shitty Leon Spinks, and went life/death with Dougie Jonezy.

Lewis would have destroyed him.

If you can't accept that, you really should watch Ali/Lewis fights.

Lewis is the #1 h2h HW of all time. Historians agree with this, analysts agree with this.

That being said. The modern day super heavyweights would destroy any other hw from any other era.

You're completely undermining the size advantage and what it brings. It brings way more advantages than disadvantages.

 

Leon Spinks?

What in 1978!

Why do you keep mentioning Jones?

What does that have to do with Wlad?

Doug Jones was a very fast former 175 fighter, who gave a 21 year old Ali a good fight in Ali's 8th fight in a year.

Wlad is a 6ft 6 slow heavy.

I've asked you how Wlad could have coped with Ali's footwork, and you've mentioned Doug Jones and Leon Spinks?

You're not living in the real world.

Wlad wanted desperately to knock out Haye for his 50th knockout, and Haye's movement frustrated him. That's just a quick example.

He couldn't destroy Haye and land on him clean, when he's now supposed to be at his best, yet he would have destroyed Ali who had 10x the movement of Haye?

Haye just slipped shots, he didn't even dance.

Ali used to dance up on his toes.

Seriously, go and watch Ali's footwork from the mid 60's.

How would Lennox have destroyed him?

He struggled with Ray Mercer, but would have DESTROYED Ali?

You're a joker!

The modern day super heavies would destroy ANY heavy?

Anyone can get caught by a punch, but it's happened to Wlad THREE times, and Sam Peter who's far from great had him hanging on for dear life.

But he would destroy any heavy?

What about Valuev?

How would he do?

Having a size advantage doesn't help you if you're facing a fighter that's more skilled, with better footwork and quicker hand speed.

 

Wow, MVC, I never thought I would agree with you about anything. I have long been saying almost word-for-word what you are saying here. You can check my previous posts to verify. The skilled size of Lennox Lewis or a Klitschko would be too much for Louis, Marciano, Frazier, Dempsey, Patterson, etc. People bash us for stating this, especially in the classic forum. Most of the old timers there think Dempsey would stop Wladimir in 2 rounds, lol.

I also agree that Ali is the exception. I would actually pick him to beat all 3. Now, in a 10 fight series? Yeah, I could definitely see Ali losing some fights, especially to Lewis.

Anyway, it is nice to agree for a change. :good

 

I've been saying it for a long time

ValueV would beat Marciano easily.

 

Lewis beats him 8/10 times. But yeah.

 

Size isn't everything, don't e confuse by Vitali's dominance either.. He never beat an opponent the quality of any of those guys

Plus he struggled against sanders

 

Doug Jones
Spinks
Norton

Ali was very flawed in his own right, he wasn't perfect or even close to that.

Vitali would beat him.

 

No fighter is completely perfect, and I think everyone universally recognizes that. It's also well known that he was young against jones, he was old, fat, and unmotivated against spinks (as demonstrated in the rematch) .. As far as norton is concerned that is Ali's true rival, and an underrated fighter at that. Ali wasn't at his absolute beat for any of these guys.

Ali would be too fast and smart for vitali, his combos and movement would be too much. Probably a competitive decision for Ali.

 

By knockout, would you say?