Max Schmeling vs Sonny Liston

I would pick Liston, but I think that Schmeling could certainly give him some stylistic problems.

 

Schmeling might have out lasted Sonny. Schmeling during his 1929-36 peak was an incredibly well conditioned, durable athlete. It could be argued Max Baer had some kind of "Tokyo Douglas" night against the German because Sharkey and Hammas sure did not beat Schmeling during this period and we all know what happened to peak Joe Louis.

Liston had a heavier jab than joe louis and was more agresive but if Schmeling could time Joe Louis he could also time Sonny Liston. Take away the pysch jobs and Liston only blew out a bunch of undersized or over matched 1950s has beens and never wasers. Schmeling hit a whole llt harder than Ali.

 

Its a tough fight for Liston against a great fighter who punches back. Prime Schmeling has more seasoning than prime Liston. Max also proberbly beat better fighters. Schmeling is not going to freeze and hes way more durable than Patterson and Folley ever were.

 

Sonny would destroy Max like he destroyed Cleveland Williams, a "has been" who is generally accepted as being the opponent in Ali's greatest performance.

 

As much as I like and rate him Schmelling wouldn't have a hope in hell. He could throw the right counter over Louis lazy jab, but Liston's jab is much harder to counter punch as he doubles/trebbles it, it's recoiled properly and it has greater range and isn't thrown short like Louis jab. Plus on top of that Liston is just too big and strong.

 

Liston's jab is a lot slower than Louyis's.

I think Schmelings right hand counter might work better than you think here.

 

I think Williams was more "never waser" than "has been" when he met Liston. To become a "has been" you have to have already been a "somebody" first ...but until meeting Liston Williams (with all his muscles) was 0-1against name fighters. Williams had only beaten a string of nobody's since Satterfeild (the lone name on his record) had pounded him into semi retirement a few years earlier.

Schmeling had a better chin than willie besmanoff who soaked up a pounding from Liston without going over and if bert whitehurst could connect with right hand punches and wobble Liston what would a world class operater like schmeling do?

Quality of opposition has to be comparable in competative fights before you can say anybody is getting destroyed. The depth of of reliable quality Schmeling produced at elite level overshadows a shorter less reliable prime that Liston had against elite fighters.

 

:goodThe right hand counter worked pretty well for Ali and leotis martin.

 

No Liston's was quicker, he stepped into it and more importantly he didn't give up range with it like Louis did. Louis was quicker at mid range but not at range with his jab, maybe because he was trying to set up his own right hand though.

It's much harder to counter a double/trebble jab, something Liston possessed which Louis did not. Even Mayweather struggles to counter double and trebble jabs. And that's why Schmelling will struggle to counter punch.

Ali didn't look for the right counter, he either led or feinted and then threw, completely different. And Leotis Martin when Liston was 40 what exactly?

 

Pedantic factoid: Cleveland Williams wasn't pounded into semi-retirement by Satterfield or anyone else. There's a gap in his record at that point because he was drafted into the army.

 

Good points, both of you.

Schmeling didn't produce a terrific performance against Max Baer. Having mentioned that, it should be noted that the Larruper had some impressive jabbing exchanges with the German late. Not noted for his jab, he did receive some tutoring in the execution of it by Loughran after Tommy had taken him to school a couple years earlier. Schmeling wasn't countering Baer's jab with his right late, but exchanging with jabs of his own. Hand speed was much in Schmeling's favor with Baer, as it would have been with Liston. Schmeling was not able to dent Baer's chin.

This wouldn't be a war, but a chess match. Schmeling wouldn't be exchanging jabs with Liston successfully. He might have some success countering Sonny's jab with his right, but that wouldn't be a prescription for winning. Fully prepared, I do think Liston would be strong enough to stand up to whatever Schmeling unloaded. Max would box with characteristic caution, and Sonny would be content to comply behind his initiatory jab, not seek and destroy. Unless Liston gets into trouble with penalties for low blows, this would be decided on the cards by the time Sonny began to fade. I don't see Max able to unload as necessary by then to take Liston out. In turn, Sonny would be too slow and predictable to stop Schmeling. [Max Baer may have been slow, but also unpredictable enough to confuse Schmeling at times, and unleash abrupt attacks. Liston was too consistent to surprise Schmeling.

It goes the distance. Sonny gets off first with that double and triple jab. Max is not winning a decision by countering those jabs with singular counter rights. Liston isn't going on the hunt here. Both would remain stationary and box at range. Schmeling would be one of those rare heavyweights able to stand his ground with Sonny and survive, able to maintain a low, solid base, but he wouldn't win. Stylistically, Liston did not share Louis's explicit susceptibilities to Max's specific strengths.

Not an exciting match, but tense, maintaining audience interest to the end with the sense that fireworks could explode at any time.

 

Ali pulled back from sonnys jab and crossed a right hand over it. Right hand counter. He does it a different way to max but it amounts to the same thing. Sonny gets stopped in his tracks comiting to a jab. Regardless of wanting to do any doubling or trebling up with the jab if you fall onto a counter it stops you in your tracks right there. Liston put everything into his lead jab so those good enough to time him coming in behind it would always hurt him. I think prime max can time Liston and is tough enough to stay with him him and predictably forecast Sonnys familiar fight patern.

 

Don't put a light cruiser against a battleship.

Liston by KO