Toney, with Hopkins's discipline and work ethic

It's hard to say how much his level would increase. He'd definitely be a better more active 12 round fighter who wouldn't need to steal breaks as often as he did. He maybe more fleet footed if needed. He'd throw more combinations and have a higher output. He could probably fight at 160 throughout his career being only 160.

I still think he probably loses to RJJ but is more competitive but maybe then regains the MW titles when Jones moves up.

After that he could probably beat all comers at 160 into his 30s, Hopkins included

 

Steve Collins tells the story of Toney's crew constantly going to the grocery store in LA near the gym they both trained at and coming back with multi-pack cans of coke for Toney, emptying them into a fat tub water bottle for him to gulp down between rounds, and full coke, not diet coke. He also used to eat six donuts at a time for lunch while in training for a fight, and never did roadwork or groundwork - just sparred and hit the speed ball.

With Hopkins's dedication nobody would've touched the guy.

 

i wanna say that but he was a guy that relied on skills, style and intelligence (in the ring). would that dedication have made a big difference? maybe but like PP said, how much further could he have gone?

the fat, lazy 175-cruiser years wouldn't have happened and he would have more productive and effective but i don't see a drastic change

 

I guess it would be like David Tua with Salvador Sanchez his feetwork and work ethic.
Practically unbeatable... Toney would still have to deal with Roy Jones Jr.
Though being beaten by a prime Roy is never a shame.

 

The thing is, though, nobody did touch the guy at his very best with **** dedication - DeWitt, Barkley, Littles. Against Jones he had nearly killed himself to make weight and had to be hospitalized, he was perhaps 15% of his usual self and 7.5-10% of his very best. At 160 he always struggled to boil down, esp for Tiberi fight. With better dedication, he would have naturally been a little sharper, faster, fitter, stronger, more powerful; so that, combined with his skill, style and ring smarts, would've been out of this world for me. He'd have timed Jones and may have dropped him early (he landed some great power shots early in the fight itself).

 

He may never move up to Heavyweight although he was holding 210-220 pretty well on his small 5'9 thin frame but I have to say if he maintained his condition he may have been a greater cruiser weight. He was having trouble with speed at 175lbs vs the well conditioned bigger men and cruiser is competitive, Jirov etc. still IMO his body would be be more fit instead of just letting go, his survival instincts and solid chin and better skill level then most of the swollen heavyweight he fought allowed him to compete on even terms at the age of 38 but I have to believe he would have won then all if he was in better condition.

 

I wasn't implying I didn't fancy them

 

I think that it would have made more of a difference towards the end of his career.

He might have had a serious impact at heavyweight for example.

 

IF he had that discipline, then from 160 - 175 he would have been the man.

he is, in my mind, the only real throwback fighter in recent years and he could have paralleled many of his great peers. Toney was a lovely box/fighter, defensive and crafty technician. he is one of few fighters in the modern game who seemed to possess the Art of the Pugilist.

the Sweet Scientist, the Noble Artist, the Prizefighter, the Boxer, the Fighter, James Toney!

 

Jones was better than any version of Toney or any version that could be dreamed up in a forum thread. In addition, he was a stylistic nightmare for Toney.

 

If toney was committed he could have beaten anyone in mw history except for rjj