1967 Muhammad Ali vs. 2007 Wladimir Klitschko

Are you punch drunk?

"Tony Thompson" and "top HW" are two phrases that don't belong in the same sentence. Wlad "on par" with Lewis? You need to put down the crack pipe...

 

glover,

Haye frustrated Wlad with minimal movement, and Wlad couldn't land clean and take him out, even when Haye was pressed up against the ropes, and on occasions he was stood in front of him with his hands low. So he was unable to knock out Haye, but he would DEFINITELY have knocked out a 67 Ali, who was MUCH faster with greater skills? atsch

If his dancing doesn't amount to little more than avoiding the fight in your opinion, then I'm clearly wasting my time debating with you. You obviously don't know anything about footwork and timing and feinting etc, so we'll leave it.

atsch

Just like the Haye fight?

 

glover,

You are being extremely disrespectful and I know you've never boxed.

Certainly obliterate practically all of them? atsch

Go and read what I typed again.

I said that just because Cooper knocked him down when he was younger, that doesn't mean that Wlad would definitely have knocked out a 67 version.

What has Wlad done to suggest he could have coped with Ali's movement and beaten him?

Ali's beaten

Liston
Frazier
Foreman

and been in the ring with Norton, Shavers and Holmes way past his prime.

What has Wlad done?

In his mid 20's/early 30's he's been knocked out by Puritty, Sanders, Brewster and was in a whole heap of trouble against Peter.

According to you, his best win is against a former CW who got stopped by Thompson, and who'd had a total of 4 fights at HW.

Haye is the same size as Ali, but he doesn't have anywhere near the same overall speed and skills that a peak Ali had.

We saw what happened in the fight.

Wlad wanted Haye to be his 50th stoppage, and he couldn't get it due to Haye's MINIMAL movement.

If Haye's movement troubled Wlad, then Ali's footwork would have absolutely bamboozled him.

:good

 

Like he did against Puritty, Brewster and Sanders in his mid 20's?

Thompson used his skillset to breach Wlad's defence, yet a peak Ali wouldn't have been able to?

 

Easy... Ali would have played with Wlad using his speed, eventually would have picked the right time to put him to sleep.

 

glover,

Haye's not as fast as Ali was with regards to footwork and reflexes. He gets tagged a lot more than he should do.

Wlad would never have had a peak version of Ali on the ropes.

Haye was pressed up on the ropes, and Wlad couldn't land clean to get him out of there.

So if he couldn't land clean on Haye with him pressed on the ropes, then how the hell could he have landed on Ali who was FASTER and who'd have been in the centre of the ring constantly moving?

It would have been a nightmare for Wlad.

Ali had superior skills to Haye.

He was a better, faster fighter than Haye, and only an idiot would argue otherwise.

If Haye's movement bothered Wlad, then Ali's would have baffled him.

Who says Wlad could have shut it down and cut him off? There's no evidence whatsoever to support that theory.

Haye put up a terrible performance. His whole toe excuse was pathetic. He didn't even try and land a single body shot on Wlad. He apparently had no leverage because of his toe, but wouldn't or couldn't change tactics. Yet despite his terrible showing, Wlad still found it tough in there.

Both Haye and Ali are 6'3. Ali's prime weight was around 215. Haye's between 210-220.

Ali was outweighed in a number of fights.

 

glover,

I've never boxed before, and if you have, then I genuinely have an enormous amount of respect for you. But i just can't believe that if you've actually fought and been in gyms, that you could talk about fighters the way you do. I'm shocked! Because if you've fought before, you must know how hard it is and what fighters have to go through. Like I said before, this forum is fun, and I've got a fantastic sense of humour, but you're constantly calling fighters nobodies and bums.

That's completely ridiculous.

How would a 1967 version of Ali be destined to get knocked out?

Haye is the perfect example to use.

Ali and Haye are both the same height and they weighed roughly the same.

But Ali was much better than Haye, and a hell of a lot faster.

Wlad's mindset going into the fight, was to knock him out for his 50th stoppage.

Haye went in there and didn't fight to his full capabilities, and still caused Wlad problems. Wlad won the fight but he could not knock out Haye, even when he was pressed against the ropes, and he had his hands low for the majority of the fight.

I've watched the fight 3 times. Wlad clearly won, but he was troubled and frustrated.

So we both know that Haye caused him some problems.

But you're saying, that a guy who was the same height and weight of Haye, but who was more skilled and faster, would DEFINITELY have been knocked out by Wlad??

There's no logic behind that thinking.

Ali didn't dance because he was bored. He didn't do it to entertain the crowd. He did it to hit and not get hit. He did it to make his opponent off balance. He did it to time his opponents, and counter, after slipping and feinting and landing his jab to score points. He darted in and out of range and used quick fire combinations. He didn't fight, he boxed.

Comparing Ali's footwork to Haye's, would be like comparing Manchester United to a league one team. They're worlds apart.

Haye didn't dance, yet caused Wlad problems.

But you're saying that Ali up on his toes, would DEFINITELY have got shut down and knocked out?

It's just a ridiculous!

Learner plates? He was in his mid 20's.

Clay is nothing compared to Haye?

We're talking about a 25 year old, 67 version of Ali.

I'm up for a laugh, but if you're going to tell me that Haye is better than a 67 Ali, then we might aswell call it a day.

Who's Wlad beat that would have beaten Ali, Liston, Foreman, Frazier etc?

Give me a laugh!

So you're glossing over Wlad's defeats, and now concentrating on Ali's past prime defeats of the 70's?

I can't even muster up a response to this nonsense.

Ali defeated Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers etc.

Haye's defeated Barrett, Valuev, Ruiz, Audley Harrison and Dereck Chisora.

 

Ali couldn't have beaten Tony Thompson?

 

glover,

Ha! You must be pissing yourself laughing typing this nonsense. But I'll bite, because it beats shopping with the girlfriend.

Tyson and Holyfield would have destroyed David Haye.

Mormeck?

You've obviously never seen the Liston fights.

Prime Ali never fought Frazier and Foreman. They came after the lay off, and he was never quite the same fighter. He'd lost some speed and his footwork was slower and he was easier to hit.

Foreman didn't trap Ali at all. Have you even watched the fight? Ali voluntarily went to the ropes, and let Foreman burn himself out. Ali could no longer dance at that point. He knew that if he'd have been up on his toes, he wouldn't have been able to sustain it for a possible 15 rounds. By adopting that tactic, he'd have only had a small window to get George out of there, otherwise he'd have gassed and been knocked out. So dancing like he did before the ban was out of the question. Slugging it out with George in the centre of the ring was also a no go.

It would have been suicide. He couldn't trade with George, because he didn't have the power. So he couldn't dance, and he couldn't trade. So his only option was to take a horrible beating and hope that Foreman tired.
If that fight in Zaire had have happened in 1964, instead of 1974, Ali would have gone nowhere near the ropes.

 

glover,

Sonny Liston was a NOBODY?

You said in your other post that Wlad's opponents could have beaten Ali's opponents easily.

How would Wlad have done against the fighters from the above list?

Liston could well have troubled Wlad.

 

LOL.

Extreme health issue? Exactly WHICH "extreme health issue" did Wlad have going into the Brewster fight?

 

Who ever thinks ali would not be the vegas underdog in this fight is on crack.

First, who has ali ever faced that was as fast wlad, Floyd Patterson (on the shot side of his career), who has ali faced who is fast as hayes or sanders or byrd.

Wlad 40 pounds more of muscle, very athletic, a Great boxer.

Ali would need to do what hayes did, not box but, run, an wait for openings, cause if you think ali was unhittable in the 60's, you never seen any of his fights. Coopers punch was not a athletic one that put clay on the canvas, but a lunge, that caught ali on the chops, an cooper just did not have SKILLS to follow it up..

To me ali could win, I could see both KO or UD, but it is far from a given, an he would half to not make mistakes, he have to have wlad who has a great defense make a mistakes, Keep in mind wlad sence 2005 you could argue wlad has not lost a round, keep in mind I write "argue" were there has not been a round were he either dominated (over 90%) or you could say it could go either way, an a lot of those rounds are which have been given away...... That comes from a great defense, which is from speed, foot work, ring general ship, an his ATG Jab.....

I say Wlad by late round KO not TKO......

 

Sorry man, I have read some of the post you have written and i hate to tell ya but you really don't know **** about boxing. :bart

 

Ali would suffer the same faith as Chris Byrd... these super heavies with skills may be to much for that generation of heavies. Klit is a great champ and not a slouch either...

heart says Ali but mind says Klit wins...

 

atsch