Gene Tunney vs Joe Louis

Im fairly sure that Joe Louis could. Remember the Dempsey fights were only 10 rounds. Joe Louis carried his power and precision well into the championship rounds. Gene Tunney was a well conditioned fighter no dispute.

Louis power jab could bust Tunney up as the fight wears on. Joe also was a smart and precise bodypuncher. His punches would move Gene even the glancing blows.

I always believed that Louis cut Conn`s legs down over course of their fight. Not the easy journalistic hook that Conn stood toe to toe because he felt like it. Thats JMO.

 

I agree.

His two performances vs Dempsey seem to have cemented that rep for him and made people forget everything else in his career leading up to it. He's defined by those two wins; "The man who beat Dempsey".

Much like Conn's getting KO'd by Louis has made people forget everything else in his career leading up to it. There were a lot of great wins and heaps of praise for his beautiful boxing skills, speed and limitless stamina. But instead he's defined by that KO loss. "The man who got beat by Louis".

 

A master thinker, a tough guy, and fleet footed for sure.

 

Surf, If a light hitting Conn could stagger Louis, Tunney if he landed the same type of blows could in your opinion do what?

 

Fleet footed master thinker? Based on which primary sources?

 

Such primary sources as I have read, have generaly gioven Tunney a prety good write up.

 

Joe Louis

 

Alright, let's take a random portion of his career.

1924

Jan 15 Harry Foley ND10
According to AP, Tunney won 7 rounds, Foley 2, with one even.
"Tunney punished Foley hard in the in-fighting. In the tenth round Foley was bleeding and tiring fast from body punches and smashes to the head."

An interesting observation by W.A. Hamilton, of Boston Herald, on the same day:

"Stone is set up nicely. He has nice height, good reach, moves swiftly and gracefully on his feet and in all, looks good enough to make the grade in the light heavyweight division. Right now he has more class than Gene Tunney, the champion"
boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=12051&cat=boxer


Jan 24 Ray Thompson W-KO2
I wasn't able to find any report of this bout, including in local Miami Beach Daily News.
Joe Williams, NEA boxing writer, observes the contenders for Dempsey's crown, and Al Stone in particular. He says on the possible bout Stone vs Tunney:
"To Stone, however, it is, because he has not had much experience. For that reason he ought to proceed cautiously. Even Tunney, by no means a great fighter, probably knows too much for him at this writing."


Feb 15 Martin Burke W15
A bout consisting primarily of clinches and infighting, mostly being Burke's fault. He opened up twice, in the 3rd round he rocked Tunney with a right to the head, following it up to the body, but instead of pushing his advantage, fell back to holding. In the 15th he again caught Tunney with a right to the head, spinning him around.


Mar 17 Jimmy Delaney ND10
"Tunney's infighting, in which he greatly excelled the local challenger, earned him the decision of newspapermen at the ringside."
Another wire said:
"In the opinion of newspapermen Tunney's rapid and vicious body punching, varied with occasional left hooks to the head gave him the victory."
Delaney broke his right hand in the 3rd round.


Jun 26 Erminio Spalla W-TKO7
Tunney outboxed and outhit an Italian heavyweight, whose only credential was staying 14 rounds with Firpo, before being knocked out.


Jul 24 Georges Carpentier W-TKO15
You can see it yourself. Ending with Tunney's knee in Carpentier's groin, in the 14th round, according to some.


Aug 18 Joe Lohman W-TKO8
"The bout started slowly, Tunney feeling his opponent out in both the first and second sessions and showing little that would mark him a champion. Lohman stayed even with the Easterner for these two rounds, which were confined to infighting for the most part. Tunney stayed on the defense, allowing Lohman to get in some leading which he could not muster together later in the fight."

 

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Stop this Tunney-Greb BS already. Greb certainly did want to meet Tunney one more time.

Head-clash in the 1st round:

Jack Lawrence of NY Tribune:
"Greb tore into Tunney at the bell and delivered the first blow, a long reaching left that landed squarely on Tunney's nose. It brought the blood in a red river"

Grantland Rice of the same newspaper doesn't mention any fouls in the 1st round:
"Greb started a red river stream from Tunney's nose in the first forty seconds, and later on cut two crimson trenches over either eye, from which the old claret rippled down the ex-champion's face."

Fairplay (who was John J. Romano, NY sporting writer):
"Then suddenly Greb cut loose with a blow he invented, a right lead which was nothing more than a right cross. Bang it went against Tunney's left eye, the blood spurting out and covering Referee McPartland's shirt."

George B. Underwood of NY Evening Telegram:
"Greb's virtually first punch drew the claret from Gene's nostrils and lips. In the sixth round either a butt or a right swing opened a wound over Tunney's left eye. Another cut over the other eye soon followed."

Hype Igoe
"The cut over Tunney's left eye was a cruel misfortune. The heads of the men came together as they fell into a clinch at the beginning of the sixth. Both missed left leads and Greb, in his usual fashion fell in with the punch. Their heads popped together like two coconuts and when they pulled away blood was gushing from a deep cut over Tunney's eye. Blood flowed into the eye and hampered the game fellow's vision."

NY Times writer first says:
"Blood poured from a nasty gash over Tunney's left eye where an old cut was ripped open early in the fray as the heads of the combatants collided."
then in the round by round says:
"First Round.
Greb leaped in with a right to the jaw and at close quarters mussed Tunney up. Greb landed a left hook on the nose which drew the blood."

 

1926-02-12 Associated Press wire:
Phoenix, Ariz.--Harry Greb, world's boxing champion in the middleweight class, announced today that he had agreed to meet Gene Tunney, American light-heavyweight champion, at Miami, Fla., the latter part of March. He said 35 thousand dollars was deposited in a bank there to guarantee his appearance.

 

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Klompton post in ESB: Uh Big Dee you are wrong. the book was pulled from the shelves. Ive interviewed Greb's family about the subject. Fair fabricated many MANY stories in his book. Period. The book being 60 years old does not account for why it is so rare. Copies of that book regularly go for over $100 there plenty of books that old and older from more obscure writers on subject far more pupular than boxing that dont sell for half that. You will never see a second edition copy of that book for simple fact that the original publishers pulled it during its initial run. I could run through that book and point out a lie or a stretch of the truth on nearly every page. If I can I know damn good and well that Greb's family and friends could too.

Tunney did not break three of Greb's ribs after all less than a month later Greb was in the ring with with the best body puncher in the middleweight division at that time, Johnny Wilson. Its doubtful he would have gone through with that fight with three broken ribs. Ive had broken ribs and anyone else who has knows how bad it hurts just to laugh much less throw a punch or recieve one.

Its possible that Greb asked Tunney to letup in the later rounds of their fight. Tunney threw in a hell of a body beating but its interesting to note that Tunney didnt start spreading that story until LONG after Greb had passed away. I tend to doubt it.

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Greb later renegged and agreed to fight Tunney again in Miami in early 1926 but the bout fell through because Tunney was in the hunt for a shot at Dempsey and focusing solely on that.

To the poster who said Tunney got thumbed before the second Dempsey fight. Actually it was headbutt by none other than Greb's former foe Chuck Wiggins. The press made a big issue of it. I have several photos of Tunney sparring with Wiggins and those two hanging out in camp together

 

There has been so much garbage written in regards to the Greb-Tunney fights over the last 90 years that something definitive needs to be written to clear up the mess.