Calzaghe Fans: "Joe was better than Hagler"

where in the **** do i begin . . . , if you typed that **** you are not worth my time.:wall

 

They do have things in common. Ward fights Calzaghes leftovers, just stays in Oakland to do it

 

LMAO @ Slappy better than Hagler....... Hagler had more knockouts than Joe had total fights! He also didn't fight washed-up versions of future hall-of-famers like Slappy did. Marvelous sh*ts all over Slappy.

 

Tell me Haglers biggest win, was it against a fighter who was a natural MW when they won their first world title?
Who were the washed up Hall of Famers Calzaghe beat?

 

Leonard was beaten in the first fight with Duran. what is it they say? "a great big fighter will always beat a great little fighter"

didn't happen.

in the rematch, Leonard ran the whole time doing nothing. what the **** was even the slightest bit great about that?? he should have beat Duran properly, but all he could do was run and clown. Duran got pissed off and walked. he didn't quit due to taken a beating or anything. it was pathetic by Leonard and no amount American brainwashing is going to change that. the win is on paper only because he looked **** in the ring.

the first Hearns fight was all Hearns! he pretty much dominated the fight but got tired late and Leonard capitalized. what was so impressive about Leonard in these two fights? because i fail to see it. another win on paper.

Hearns won the rematch on my card. it was only by a point, but still a win for Hearns.

it was a great win for Leonard over Hagler, but he did only do something in the last 30-60 seconds of the fight.

he is not anywhere near to being a top ten. that is bull****. :deal

and with Ali, he's even more overrated.

please spell it out will you... what made Liston great other than hype?

Floyd patterson an ATG? :rofl

other than the Ali win for Frazier, what makes him an ATG? i love me a bit of Frazier myself, but to call him an ATG is going way too far. he's a big part of Heavyweight history, but that's it. i suppose you think that Douglas is an ATG due to his win over Tyson as well? atsch

Foreman was a beast but is also massively overrated. he has wins over Norton, Frazier, Moorer and Lyle. Lyle being a good solid fighter and nothing else.

you really feel that Foreman is all that do you with that record? he also couldn't box for ****. probably the most famous Heavyweight champ that was the most clueless in the ring. his IQ in there was 0. he was taken to ****ing school by a bum in Young for **** sake.

Ali is a great fighter, but people think that he's invincible when that couldn't be further from the truth even if they tried their hardest.

2 loses to Norton. very good fighter but nothing special.
lost to Young who is a total trash can. ugly to **** watching Young in the ring.

basic fighters have given a real hard time in there. i agree that Ali is great, but i see him for what he was. not what people try to convince me he was.

he was also boring as **** most of the time. Foreman had to do all the work in their fight until he got tired. Ali was just soaking it up on the ropes.

and this was one of Ali's better fights. says it all really.

 

well, Joe is a good looking guy, so i think it would be best if you asked your Mum and Sister. they'll know. :yep

 

depends who that loss was too. but he never lost, so it's neither here nor there.

GOOD WINS:
Sheika (dangerous no 1 contender. the Yanks seemed to talk him up a lot back then)
Bika
Veit x2
Brewer
Jones Jr

VERY GOOD WINS:
Reid
Mitchell
Woodhall

GREAT WINS:
Lacy
Kessler
Eubank
Hopkins

that's 13 wins that actually matter. you'd be pretty surprised what you'd find if you did this to the revered fighters in history when it comes down to it. try it yourself with any fighter you want. it isn't all sweetness and light.

if he was 45-1 he'd still make the HOF. fighters with much less substance are in there.

List all the good, very good and great wins for these fighters on this thread if you have the time...

Hopkins
Toney
Ali
Foreman
Frazier
Jones
Robinson
Hagler
Louis

give it a go. :good

 

that Reid fight wasn't close. but you keep looking at Box-Rec if it makes you feel better.

there was also no careful match-making. that would be Mayweather, Jones and Hopkins. oh, and you can now throw in Broner. America doing what it does best. :yep

 

i love the way you're trying to not look like an idiot but failing. :rofl

you have no credibility. non. :deal

 

either point it out so i can respond, or go away. you're wasting MY time.

i'll trash your response. bring it. :bbb

 

did i read that right? are you saying that Briscoe, Leonard and Duran were prime? :rofl:rofl

they were much smaller as well. and he lost to Leonard.

 

Shhhiiiiieeeeettt.... looks like someone doesn't know **** about boxing.
The Duran/Leonard rematch was a farce, but it was a legit win by Leonard. Leonard BOXED and won against Duran. Duran's closest friends even admitted in an interview that the reason Duran quit was because he was embarrassed and didn't want to fight anymore..
Then comes the Leonard/Hearns fight in their PRIMES..
Hearns was the WBA Welterweight champion, and the hardest hitter that division has ever seen. It was a super fight to determine who the lineal and undisputed Welterweight champion was. Hearns peppered Leonard with the jab all night and it was difficult for Leonard to nullify it. During the 14th round, Leonard found his opening and KO'd Hearns like a true champion is supposed to do. An unheard of achievement and an ATG win.
That fight jeopardized Leonard's career because it ruined his right eye.. he retired shortly after that fight, came back.. and beat the lineal, undisputed, middleweight champion of the world and top 3 ATG in the division in Hagler. You falter this win against Leonard, yet praise Slappy's win over Hopkins? :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl
4 ATG's that Leonard beat.. name me one clear win over an ATG or HOF that Slappy beat? I'll wait.
Floyd Patterson, George Foreman, Joe Fraizer, and Sonny Liston are all top 10 ATG's at heavyweight who Ali beat. No resume at Heavyweight even comes close to Ali's..
George Foreman came into the ring and knocked mother ****ers out which is what a true heavyweight is supposed to do. Your opinion on his skills are irrelevant. I can say that Froch is a caveman and can't box for ****, that doesn't stop him from being a top 5 ATG at Super Middleweight and the best fighter Britain has right now.
Your analogy on Buster Douglas is void. Buster Douglas never made a successful defense and never became relevant after his win on Tyson. What makes an ATG is consistency and resume. Taylor isn't an ATG after beating Hopkins in his prime, Tarver isn't an ATG after KOing Jones, and Rahman isn't an ATG after KOing Lewis..

 

There's no doubt that any, and I mean any, fighter's list of opponents can be poked and prodded until it looks worse. I am not trying to do that here with Calzaghe. I think what we have is a philosophical difference in what we define as a level of opposition. My take......

GOOD WINS:
Bika
Brewer
Eubank- (sorry the time and circumstances that it happened must be taken into consideration.)
Reid
Mitchell
Woodhall


Very Good WINS:
Lacy
Hopkins
Kessler

Great wins- to me, empty. (Gotta leave room for guys like a prime Hopkins or Jones who would have been just that.)

Not looking to assign blame to Calzaghe or anything. I'm beyond caring who was the cause of it. Say it Hopkins' or Jones' or Calzaghe's or Warrren's fault or what not. Whatever happened, happened. And what didn't, didn't.

I agree he'd be HOF worthy regardless of whether he had lost a fight or not.

My point about the "0" is that it serves to cover up blemishes to a degree. It gives an illusion that because a guy didn't lose that he couldn't. I don't think he was the master craftsman he often looked against lesser opponents. I think he was the more a cross between that and the flawed, beatable fighter he looked against the higher level opposition he did face. So, to me, the "0" is more indicative of a lack of challenges(for whatever reason) than evidence of dominance. And that is not exclusive to Calzaghe either.

I hear things like Ward or Froch wouldn't win a round. Well, if Kessler or Richie Woodhall and Kabary Salem can win rounds off of Joe, these 2 certainly can. Don't get me wrong, I do think he'd beat Froch solidly, and I'd favor him slightly over Ward with his pressure and work, but it wouldn't be a man toying with boys as some make it seem.(Ward would clearly be his best win, and would qualify as great.)

 

Jones Jr. & Hopkins are future HOFs. However, when Slappy fought Jones, Jones had already been knocked out five years prior against Tarver and again with Johnson. Bernard was already over 40 years old when he fought Slappy and Jones was 39. NOBODY is in their prime near/past 40, it's a physiological impossibility. So yes, they were washed up. Hagler beating guys like Antefuermo, Mugabi and Hearns craps all over those two wins.