Ali's Disappointing Second Reign ...

Ali had a lot of help from his "friends" in many of those fights.
He would have looked better retiring after Manila or maybe even after Foreman.

 

In three years he successfully defended against Ron Lyle, Joe Bugner, Joe Frazier, Jimmy Young, Ken Norton and Earnie Shavers. It's a far better line-up than most champions can boast of.

A couple of the decisions were close enough to be controversial of course, but the claim that they were blatant robberies is a myth. A large proportion of ringsiders agreed with the judges.

 

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Let's not forget that Ali was already 32 years old,which was pretty old for a boxer in those days,when he won the title back.

 

Ali "won" de taitels back due 2 a scam , de beginning of hiz "2nd rein" woz de worst part of it , its most ilejitim8 part :
boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=211663

And he struggled against almost any1 even during his prime and b4 it :
boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=347452

end de "olmost" part here iz onli bikoz Ali , jast laik aders , hed sam rili lauzi oponents .

End wail Ali woz old vs Lyle , Lyle woz iven older vs Ali ..
End it iz argyuabel det Bugner woz jast not veri gud .
End it iz onli dyu 2d Ali*3 & Holmes faits det Norton iz ujuali konsiderd veri gud .

Ali's opponents were meid lejenderi bai Ali's feminin / kastreited / shimeil worshipers

 

I agree with Mendoza on most points. I don't think Ali's second reign was much of anything. He received so much help, and the rest of the division suffered because of it. He was champion in name only from '76 only...he certainly wasn't the best heavyweight out there.

 

Ali "beat" Jimmy Young because of who he was not because of anything he actually did once the bell rang. Young clearly outboxed him. The boxing establishment wasnt ready to let Ali go as champion.

Oh yeah..if Ali had put his head outside of the ropes to break off the action his fans would have been prasing him for his ring IQ. That as well as the "you have to take it from the champion" excuse which is the biggest myth.

It hurt Ali in the long run. He was able to keep his title and take more beatings not in the best of condition.

 

Larry Holmes could have beaten Ali as early as 1976-1977, and I think Ali probably knew it!

 

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How would you guys rate Floyd Patterson's second reign?

 

His second reign alone would have been enough to get him unanimously into Canastota's 1990 charter class. He had ten consecutive successful defenses of the undisputed world heavyweight championship during the 1970s. Nobody has done that since, and only Louis and Burns had ever reached double figures in successful defenses of the undisputed HW title before.

For my money, 1975 is one of the finest individual calendar years of any HW champion in history. The year AFTER Manila, he defended it four more times, taking out of the mothballs of the Frazier-Foreman years [where we never saw it on the line more than twice a year].

Shavers himself has been quoted in interviews as agreeing with the official decision in favor of Ali in their 1977 title go. Most youtube viewers of the entirety of Ali-Norton III who have posted comments on the outcome have Ali taking it 8-7 or 9-6 in rounds. It seems this one might have been far more controversial if Ken had been awarded that decision in Yankee Stadium. Close, but far from a robbery, according to the consensus. It means Ali produced defenses against quality challengers in each of the three years he retained the title during the 1970s.

Yes, he had disappointing performances against disappointingly performing challengers, and was not an inherently exciting fighter himself, but yes, I do think he was the best heavyweight in the world until after Shavers. No other heavyweight at that time could have racked up ten successful defenses in three years against the variety of opponents he did in 1975, 1976 and 1977. [Holmes wouldn't have been able to do it until Shavers I in 1978, AFTER Leon Spinks upset Ali.]

 

Good post :good Yes,even though one or two of his post Manilla victories were questionable,Muhammad was an ACTIVE champion.

 

I very much doubt as to whether Holmes was on Ali's,or any top contender's, radar until he beat Earnie Shavers in their first fight.

 

Norton felt that pressure, and expressed it in an interview upon being awarded the WBC Title in 1978, after Leon Spinks was stripped of it for signing to defend against Ali in a return.

Kenny stated his intention to defend the WBC Title "every month and a half." More than anything else, I believe that was Muhammad's legacy as a fighting champion.

When Ali defeated Leon in their New Orleans Superdome rematch, a commentator mentioned that Leon now held the record as the shortest reigning HW champion in history, supplanting Carnera, whose previous position as the shortest reigning HW titlist had been cited by Guinness. [I've always felt that Primo's record should have been asterisked, as he'd successfully defended it twice against Uzcudun and Loughran within the same seven month span of time Leon did not successfully defend it at all. Like Ali, I appreciate Carnera for being an active champion within the short span of time he held it. No other heavyweight champion produced three successive title wins that close together for a nearly three decade period between 1909 and 1938. Max Baer didn't defend it for a year before losing it to Braddock, who in turn sat on it for two more years.]

Could Norton ever have defeated Foreman, Shavers or Lyle in title competition? Lyle, Shavers and Cooney are all potential challengers if Ken's able to turn back Holmes decisively [which may well have happened if he'd nailed Larry's torn left bicep in their opening round]. Kenny was regarded by everybody as the uncrowned king during the late 1970s, but an unimpressed Jerry Quarry remarked late in Norton's match with Middleton that, "He's gonna have ta fight a heckuva lot better than this if he's going to beat Ali!" [commenting on Norton-Middleton for CBS].

Was Norton ever as good a boxer as he was a physical specimen, or were people taken in by his photogenic Mandingo appearance? Ultimately, I believe Mike Weaver accomplished more. I can't see Ken taking those Bionic rights from Coetzee, and he never laid out a defending champion in a title fight like Hercules did Tate. [Nor could I see Norton prevailing against Big John while being smothered into the ropes like that. Ken wasn't as strong as his musculature might lead one to expect. Foreman destroyed him, and Cobb forced him to win off the ropes, just like Tate would have. Norton never had Weaver's one punch power.]

Mike Weaver strung together three consecutive title wins over Tate [in Knoxville], Coetzee [in South Africa] and an undefeated Tillis, then took Dokes to a 15 round draw in a rematch he's widely considered to have won after being prematurely robbed of his title. Did Norton have the capacity to replicate Weaver's string of title wins? Because 1975-1977 Ali would have clearly done it when in shape [which he wasn't for Young].